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Anyone Here Stopped Wearing Retainers and Saw Relapse even while Mewing?  

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HappyPanda27
Active Member
Question in title. I want to know if anyone here had braces to correct their crooked or misaligned teeth and then stopped wearing retainers and also mewed. If so, did you see any relapse in your teeth at all or did your teeth go back to their original crowded or misaligned form that they were in before you had braces?

 

I am asking this because according to Dr. Mike Mew, mewing alone constantly 24/7 will prevent relapse even without a permanent retainer that is only behind the 4 top teeth? Mike Mew claims that proper oral posture alone is enough to stop the relapse. To my knowledge, no studies have been done to demonstrate whether this works or not. He also claims the retainers stop you from being able to expand your palate properly. Again, I don't think any studies have been done on this, although I can see how a Hawley or Clear/Plastic Invisalign retainer could prevent mewing progress. Now, I understand how a clear/plastic Invisalign retainer can prevent expansion with mewing as it just undoes whatever progress/expansion you make from mewing during the day when you wear the retainer at night, but a permanent retainer seems like you can at least get SOME expansion, as well as no retainer at all obviously giving the most amount of expansion possible as you mew.

 

But my main question is, how safe would it truly be if I had mastered proper tongue posture and mewed constantly 24/7, to try to go without retainers forever and hope that mewing alone will not cause my teeth to go crooked again? I guess the only true way for me to find out would be to TRY this out and see if my teeth go crooked again even after mewing constantly 24/7, but then again, if they were to go crooked again, I would have to pay for braces again AND have wasted time AND have messed up my teeth. That said, I would like to hear your guy's experiences with this. If anyone of you have stopped wearing retainers and mewed constantly 24/7, have you seen any relapse at all? I would really like to hear your guy's experiences to gauge whether I am safe to try this as well. Any advice and/or suggestions in regards to this would be greatly appreciated, thank you.
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Posted : 20/10/2019 3:16 am
andreakv
Active Member

This is a difficult question to answer but since I soon shall remove my braces here is my opinion. 

I do not believe that mewing consistently 24/7 will guarantee the prevention of relapse IN EVERY CASE. Why do I not think so? Because if the teeth were put in a position that the underlying bone cannot support (what mike mew calls out of the Balance zone) , then relapse will occur even if mewing is performed. Orthodontics and research indicates that extractions aid in lowering the likelihood of relapse (I still am not in favor of doing so at the cost of the risk of a "dished in" profile).  I believe that the presence of overprominent roots, tooth dehiscence  indicates the insufficiency of bone structure thus increasing the likelihood of relapse. 

However if sufficient bone structure is present (this is increased by orthodontics through growth appliances, mechanical expanders at a young age like hyrax, schwarz etc etc) then mewing and correct tongue posture, lip seal etc. etc.  will aid in the prevention of relapse. 

The real question is: "Is the likelihood of a better profile and a wider arch due to mewing (following growth cessation) at the cost of risking relapse worth it? " I would say Yes, since I would rather have my teeth in a position that can be supported without the use of the retainer.  Plus (a better Facial Profile) > (A smile that doesn't fit my face) 

Andrea KV

 

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Posted : 20/10/2019 4:08 am
HappyPanda27
Active Member

@andreakv Thank you andreakv for your response, I really appreciate it. I think I will get a permanent/fixed retainer, wait 6 months to a year and if I see no relapse I will try mewing without even a permanent/fixed retainer. And then if I see relapse without the permanent retainer I guess I will just switch back to a permanent retainer forever and mew for the rest of my life because then at least I can keep the general alignment of my front 4 teeth (the ones that are more important since they are most visible when talking) and prevent possible relapse while still having at least more possibility of expansion from mewing as opposed to me just using a clear/plastic retainer each night, which would just undo mewing/expansion progress. Thanks again for your response and advice and have a good one. Also, if anyone else has any input and/or suggestions in regards to this post, I encourage others to share their experience in regards to mewing and possible relapse as I think it would help not only me but others in regard to this question as well.

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Posted : 20/10/2019 5:08 am
Pedrogar0227
New Member

I started mewing last month and it started ruining my top teeth after braces and wearing Invisalign retainer on top and bottom wire retainer cemented to the front teeth. I had to go online to see if it anyone had a similar experience. Don’t do it. I had gone years without wearing my top retainer about 5 years. And just this last month I mewed correctly without putting pressure on my front teeth and today I noticed my front teeth we beginning to misalign. It’s only one of them so I was thinking maybe both with move and align together but I’m too scared too risk it. I just found old aligned I hadn’t worn in years cleaned it up and threw it back in. Just hoping the tooth goes back to how it was or I’m gonna hate myself for this. Mew at your own risk. 

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Posted : 08/02/2020 3:17 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member

Haven't worn retainer since 2013. Teeth are great. You need EXCELLENT oral posture and muscle control before you do this, though. 

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Posted : 08/02/2020 6:32 pm
andreakv
Active Member

@engineers

https://doi.org/10.1016/S0096-6347(44)90038- 4"> https://sci-hub.tw/https://doi.org/10.1016/S0096-6347(44)90038-4

I wish it was that simple, but it isn't.  This article is by Tweed, one of the students of Edward Angle - "the father of American orthodontics", who after years of treating non extraction came to the conclusion that more than 80% relapsed after 5 years, and that relapse was reduced and in some cases aesthetics improved in extraction cases. 

Do I think extractions are a good thing? No. I think extractions would only be justified in those whose poorly grown bone structure cannot support the right teeth occlusion.

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Posted : 08/02/2020 10:13 pm
Marsiere214
New Member

i would recommend mewing but first learn how to mew while you sleep

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Posted : 08/02/2020 11:26 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @andreakv

@engineers

https://doi.org/10.1016/S0096-6347(44)90038- 4"> https://sci-hub.tw/https://doi.org/10.1016/S0096-6347(44)90038-4

I wish it was that simple, but it isn't.  This article is by Tweed, one of the students of Edward Angle - "the father of American orthodontics", who after years of treating non extraction came to the conclusion that more than 80% relapsed after 5 years, and that relapse was reduced and in some cases aesthetics improved in extraction cases. 

Do I think extractions are a good thing? No. I think extractions would only be justified in those whose poorly grown bone structure cannot support the right teeth occlusion.

Poorly grown bone structure can be expanded. Gaps have opened for those with previous extractions. People's impacted wisdom teeth have come in. Extractions are useless. If you can expand, why extract? Makes NO sense

Any minor aesthetic benefit (which can be gained through expansion anyway) is not worth having airway problems due to a narrower palate. 

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Posted : 08/02/2020 11:41 pm
Oatmeal
Trusted Member

@eddiemoney

Even though my upper incisors are retroclined, my upper lip somewhat extends out. Is this characteristic of bad muscle control?

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Posted : 13/02/2020 9:38 am
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @oatmeal

@eddiemoney

Even though my upper incisors are retroclined, my upper lip somewhat extends out. Is this characteristic of bad muscle control?

I don't think I remember your upper lip looking atypical in any way. Everyone's upper lip extends out normally. If it didn't then it would be a cause for concern. 

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Posted : 13/02/2020 10:50 am
Oatmeal
Trusted Member

@eddiemoney

ah okay, i thought my lips was supposed to be retruded or something, and its not so its feel strange

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Posted : 13/02/2020 10:58 am
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @oatmeal

@eddiemoney

ah okay, i thought my lips was supposed to be retruded or something, and its not so its feel strange

People with retrusive lips tend to have had extractions usually

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Posted : 13/02/2020 11:07 am
Bogdar
Eminent Member

I can witness. My orthodontist told that I had to take a retainer as much as I could all day long for ~18months IIRC for the nerve to adapt and teeth to stay in place.

"Unfortunately", I still had permanent retainer on lower teeth, but I could do the experiment with my upper teeth at least.

So, I haven't put on the upper retainer once, it's been more than a year now. Except for one incisor that was initially a bit crowded, and who moved like a single mm (at most), everything kept at place. So much that, I haven't told my ortho I chose not to use the retainer, and when controling me he was happy I was putting the retainer correctly. Mike Mew is legit.

Also, I am not satisfied with a perfect aligned teeth look, it does not go well together with a degenerated face IMO. It's just wrong lol. So it helped me to choose the yolo without retainer path.

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Posted : 14/02/2020 1:20 pm
mr.mewing
Estimable Member
Posted by: @bogdar

I can witness. My orthodontist told that I had to take a retainer as much as I could all day long for ~18months IIRC for the nerve to adapt and teeth to stay in place.

"Unfortunately", I still had permanent retainer on lower teeth, but I could do the experiment with my upper teeth at least.

So, I haven't put on the upper retainer once, it's been more than a year now. Except for one incisor that was initially a bit crowded, and who moved like a single mm (at most), everything kept at place. So much that, I haven't told my ortho I chose not to use the retainer, and when controling me he was happy I was putting the retainer correctly. Mike Mew is legit.

Also, I am not satisfied with a perfect aligned teeth look, it does not go well together with a degenerated face IMO. It's just wrong lol. So it helped me to choose the yolo without retainer path.

so you removed your upper retainers for a year and nothing has really happend but how good is your tongue posture can you hold it for like all the time and well also while your sleeping?

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Posted : 15/02/2020 10:58 am
andreakv
Active Member

@mr-mewing

same here. Took off my braces last december, haven't worn the retainer for a single day.  Front 5 teeth have not  shifted at all, my posterior part of my  arch has expanded alveolarly, i now have more posterior tongue space, specifically behind the back molars. I feel I have a better occlusal contact of the teeth than I was in my retainer positioned arch. 

 

I did however began training my tongue posture, chewing habits 2 years ago, something I feel to be very important if one considers to not wear his retainer.  

Andrea KV

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Posted : 15/02/2020 1:02 pm
andreakv
Active Member

@eddiemoney

I have not been able to find studies on the claims of skeletal expansion especially regarding extraction reversal and the safety in doing so. Maybe you could link me to such studies making the claims that you make

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Posted : 15/02/2020 1:05 pm
Bogdar
Eminent Member
Posted by: @mr-mewing
Posted by: @bogdar

I can witness. My orthodontist told that I had to take a retainer as much as I could all day long for ~18months IIRC for the nerve to adapt and teeth to stay in place.

"Unfortunately", I still had permanent retainer on lower teeth, but I could do the experiment with my upper teeth at least.

So, I haven't put on the upper retainer once, it's been more than a year now. Except for one incisor that was initially a bit crowded, and who moved like a single mm (at most), everything kept at place. So much that, I haven't told my ortho I chose not to use the retainer, and when controling me he was happy I was putting the retainer correctly. Mike Mew is legit.

Also, I am not satisfied with a perfect aligned teeth look, it does not go well together with a degenerated face IMO. It's just wrong lol. So it helped me to choose the yolo without retainer path.

so you removed your upper retainers for a year and nothing has really happend but how good is your tongue posture can you hold it for like all the time and well also while your sleeping?

Of course I did it knowing I had to keep an efficient tongue posture. Actually I think it's been 2 years not 1. During my sleep I sometimes wake up with tongue on palate, sometimes not. But during the day I'm always nosebreathing with tongue on palate, the swallowing can only be witness from outside by masseters activation and throat, not face muscles.

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Posted : 16/02/2020 11:54 am
EddieMoney
Reputable Member
Posted by: @andreakv

@eddiemoney

I have not been able to find studies on the claims of skeletal expansion especially regarding extraction reversal and the safety in doing so. Maybe you could link me to such studies making the claims that you make

Seriously? A quick Google search on opening extraction spaces comes up with numerous results. Besides, who said anything about extraction reversal? I am suggesting extractions should never happen, so why would you need a study on some claim I never made?

What exactly is safe about reducing airway space? Or extracting teeth? Simple palatal expanders can create room to straighten teeth. Again, why extract? We know too much about the negative effects. 

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Posted : 21/02/2020 2:57 pm