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Anyone doing what AGGA is doing but with their tongue?  

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drunkwithcoffee
Estimable Member

Since adjusting my tongue tip from the incisive papilla to just a bit further back near the rugae, I've been feeling pressure in my front teeth. I believe this is basically what AGGA does but with an appliance.

Has anyone essentially manipulated AGGA's effects but with their tongue?

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Posted : 16/11/2020 7:34 pm
sinned
Estimable Member

Yes, I firmly believe this is how you get forward growth, the problem with agga is that it anchors to the molars giving the characteristic agga gap. This results in more pushing of the teeth and stretching of the alveolar bone instead of forward growth.

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Posted : 16/11/2020 8:38 pm
drunkwithcoffee
Estimable Member

@sinned I wonder if going "slower" by just using the tongue will prevent those gaps from forming.

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Posted : 16/11/2020 9:27 pm
sinned
Estimable Member

@drunkwithcoffee

Gaps form with agga due to the nature of the device. It's anchored onto the molars, so it's only natural that a gap will form from where it's anchored. The tongue doesn't have the same problem. I think an issue may arise from tipped teeth but as long as you aren't pushing on the teeth directly and you have a lip seal and you're chewing I don't think it's an issue. I never had an issue with tipped teeth, although the first time I did this I got sensitivity and soreness in the front teeth, that was because my tongue was resting too low and I was pushing too much on the teeth instead of the alveolar bone above the teeth.

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Posted : 17/11/2020 12:48 am
drunkwithcoffee
Estimable Member

Makes sense. Have you personally seen any forward growth?

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Posted : 17/11/2020 12:07 pm
Progress
Member Moderator

I have found that putting the tip on the rugae, or even slightly further back helps the tongue to lodge into the 'pocket' of the palate. Keeping the tip on the papilla never feels quite right.

Has the AGGA treatment actually resulted in forward alveolar growth even once? I saw a facebook post of some doctor who claimed to have achieved this, he even shared the x-rays of his patient. Yet after superimposing the x-rays it became evident that no growth had taken place.

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Posted : 17/11/2020 3:30 pm
drunkwithcoffee
Estimable Member

@Progress that's what I've come to realize as well. That position gives the tongue more traction to provide forward forces, almost like a "grip."

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Posted : 17/11/2020 4:14 pm
cliffbars liked
Loliboly
Estimable Member

@sinned @Progress @drunkwithcoffee

I haven’t experienced any growth due to this practice, yet. But I can attest that keeping the tip there has helped me induce extremely strong sensations in my face(coupled with some other factors) this last week. I seems like the tongue covers the palette optimally when resting there, thus transmitting force the most optimally. When resting to close to the papilla/front teeth, it seems like a small, but yet vital part of the palate isn’t properly covered, and this results in energy being wasted. The forces seem to be mostly concentrated upwards for me however, so I don’t know if I am doing something differently from you.

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Posted : 17/11/2020 5:52 pm
cliffbars
Eminent Member

Can someone clarify what is the correct position to put the tip of the tongue? I experience that putting the tip on the rugae feels much more easier/ natural, however, I've heard many others saying right behind the incisors.

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Posted : 19/11/2020 10:19 am
TheBeastPanda
Trusted Member

@sinned  so pushing with the tongue on the incisive papilla, right on the hard palate, induces forward growth. I thougt mewing induces forward growth when the posterior end of the tongue pushes against the soft palate and the teeth are in light,subtle, contact. Correct me if im wrong or missed anything.

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Posted : 29/11/2020 6:17 pm
Loliboly
Estimable Member

@thebeastpanda

I can’t say for the first part of your question. But for the later, Mike Mew recently stated the following in an interview with Koko Hayashi: The posterior third doesn’t produce as much force as the other two thirds does. The reason he still stresses the importance of the posterior third, is that he thinks it acts as a reminder for the rest of the tongue, thus facilitating good posture. This begs the questions: Does he think the back third is absolutely necessary, or is it rather just a very helpful tool?

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Posted : 29/11/2020 7:20 pm
TheBeastPanda
Trusted Member

@Loliboly Wait can you link the video where mike said that an include a timestamp. Really, I thought the posterior third is one of the main reasons why the maxila gets driven up and forwards. Wait so are you saying I should be pushing with the mid and front of the tongue. I find if I do so a lump forms in my submental region, and months ago when I was learning how to mew alot of videos said that was wrong.

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Posted : 29/11/2020 7:31 pm
Loliboly
Estimable Member

@thebeastpanda

I can’t give you the exact time stamp, since I don’t remember where it was. But the whole thing can be worth watching anyways: https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=UUymph_9uF6n2qezt6B7s5GQ&v=V-rF9uUiq_k

As for what part to focus on: Mew advocates the suction hold, so he wouldn’t tell you to press any part of the tongue. To my understanding, his sentiment is that the tip and middle, via suction, provides more force into the maxilla than the back third. Focusing on the back third reminds the rest of the tongue of doing its work. What technique(s) you should be applying is ultimately up to your own judgment.

Regarding the infamous “mewing bump”: I believe this is caused by pressing the tongue forwards. If you really just push upwards, you shouldn’t get any bump underneath your chin. It should rather be flat, or even cave inwards(this is the case for me).

Personally, I would encourage you to pay attention to the posterior third. Of all the things I have tried, I believe this is what ultimately has started things to change for the good(finally). I also believe in hard mewing, but only if you do it intelligently. But I would also advice you to experiment, a lot. You can also take a look at the thread “The 14+ ways of mewing” for inspiration and further elaboration.

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Posted : 29/11/2020 9:15 pm
cliffbars
Eminent Member

@thebeastpanda 30:00 in the video. I made a post about this as well

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Posted : 30/11/2020 12:53 pm
Loliboly liked
TheBeastPanda
Trusted Member

@Loliboly So should I be pressing forwards and upwardsz? And what are your thoughts on hard mewing

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Posted : 30/11/2020 1:21 pm
TheBeastPanda
Trusted Member

@cliffbars thx man, appreciate it

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Posted : 30/11/2020 1:22 pm
Loliboly
Estimable Member

@thebeastpanda

I think I may have already answered your question. I don’t really believe in pushing forwards, but instead focus in having the tongue as high up into my palate as possible. I do hard mew from time to time during the day, but I do not just push mindlessly. The focus is mainly on the posterior third, regardless if I am hard mewing or soft mewing. I have also experimented at lot with different ways of using the tongue, which you can read about in the thread I mentioned. But keep in mind, I have made minimal gains; the only thing that has happened for sure is that one of my wisdoms teeth has erupted slightly. I am by no means any authority on this topics, so I would thus encourage you to keep reading, and above all, experiment. Be mindful and smart about exploring your body, etc.

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Posted : 30/11/2020 7:11 pm