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A "Workout" for the Maxilla

drunkwithcoffee
Estimable Member

Today on my walk, I made a concerted effort to chin tuck + proper swallow every 10 seconds or so.  When done properly this generates a huge upward force against the maxilla.  I could be wrong but I don't think you can get this kind of force by "hard mewing."

I've always had a decent-sized airway and decent-sized palate (recessed, but I can mostly fit my whole tongue up there) and I've never experienced soreness from mewing.  But I'm definitely feeling some soreness now.

I'm wondering what would happen if you got serious about the chin tuck + swallow and did it a couple hundred times a day.  I'm going to try it this week and report back.  Open to any thoughts/disagreements as well.

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Topic starter Posted : 02/06/2019 1:42 pm
LaHuntR liked
krollic
Reputable Member

reminds me of the thread we talked in a few months ago on that exercise i made up. https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/an-effective-exercise-to-strengthen-the-root-of-the-tongue/

it sounds like basically the same thing as what you're doing. i too, definitely feel some acheing after doing it and it made my tongue root so much stronger. the acheing lasts about a day or two. as you build up the strength, your tongue root will stay up more by itself.

i'd suggest you start taking control of the root and applying it upwards w/o swallowing. you can get an even more incredible amount of force for a longer period of time. i think it's a fantastic exercise for building strength. and is effective for driving the maxilla up and forward and expanding your airway

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Posted : 02/06/2019 1:58 pm
drunkwithcoffee
Estimable Member

Yep, I had been playing with this already when we first talked, but I never truly committed to doing it for reps like a workout, so to speak.

I'll try to apply it on the same level as a hard mew.  My thing is that I feel like I don't have enough control over it yet because when I try to apply force with the back third, I tend to also apply force with the front 2/3rds and it makes the muscle under my chin bulge.  I'm sure I'll be able to improve over time as I establish more of a mind/body connection with the tongue.

Have you seen good results with this?

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Topic starter Posted : 02/06/2019 2:34 pm
krollic
Reputable Member

yeah, I have. my hyoid has raised even when i'm not exerting it (my under jaw/profile looks a lot better) and it's made 24/7 mewing a lot easier for me. when I swallow or raise the root with a chin tuck, i can feel an amazing amount of force being projected into my softpalate/throat. i am certain that it has made my airways larger because i'm getting really close to the point where I can do a chin tuck + proper swallow while still being able to nasally breathe; couldn't do that before even with a hyoid that didn't go as far a distance.

if i could offer some advice for building a mind/muscle connection; go lie down and close your eyes and gently clasp your hyoid w/ your index and thumb. raise and lower the hyoid by doing the swallowing and yawning motions, respectively. when you go to proper swallow, try and keep the root up at the apex of the swallow. keep practicing until you are able to isolate the hyoid movement with your mind and raise/lower it without needing to resort to a swallow/sound exercise or yawning motion.

an advanced exercise you can try later is when you chin-tuck, manually raise the tongue root to the rear palate, suction it there and then pull down on the hyoid. it stretches out the tongue root from top to bottom and feels like you're pulling on a rubberband. it's a nice feeling. i wonder if it helps too elongate the tongue root.

 

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Posted : 02/06/2019 2:58 pm
Demir liked
darkindigo
Reputable Member

If you push your maxilla up you’ll get into your nasal airway and become anxious/obsessive/paranoid..like most who do “Mewing”.  Now...it depends entirely on what you look like and all that.  Airway matters through the nose...through the mouth and down the back of your jaws.

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Posted : 02/06/2019 3:10 pm
drunkwithcoffee
Estimable Member

@krollic when you say "pull down on the hyoid" in the last paragraph, do you mean pull it down with your fingers?

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Topic starter Posted : 02/06/2019 3:42 pm
TransportationYuppie
Active Member
Posted by: darkindigo

If you push your maxilla up you’ll get into your nasal airway and become anxious/obsessive/paranoid..like most who do “Mewing”.  Now...it depends entirely on what you look like and all that.  Airway matters through the nose...through the mouth and down the back of your jaws.

What do you mean by this?

Are you saying that mewers end up obstructing their airways and this results in anxious mental disorders and so on?

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Posted : 02/06/2019 3:46 pm
Progress
Member Moderator
Posted by: krollic

an advanced exercise you can try later is when you chin-tuck, manually raise the tongue root to the rear palate, suction it there and then pull down on the hyoid. it stretches out the tongue root from top to bottom and feels like you're pulling on a rubberband. it's a nice feeling. i wonder if it helps too elongate the tongue root.

This would be something to aim for as the default posture in my opinion. The downward movement of the hyoid is supportive for inhale and pull movements (think of push/vs pull gym exercises), while the upward movement is supportive for exhale and push movements (in exercises like deadlifts and squats lifting the hyoid allows you to perform the core-stabilizing valsalva maneuver, which means trying to exhale while simultaneously blocking the airflow with your throat). See if you agree.

I have experienced a variety of problems focusing only on the upward movement of the hyoid, such as hoarse voice and unstable knees, due to the incomplete postural tension that ignoring the downward pull results in. That being said, someone who comes from a background of head forward posture and a slacking tongue is definitely going to benefit from focusing on the upward push of the hyoid, but without also countering the push with a downward pull so that there comes to exist this rubberband-like tension you mentioned, you can end up with postural dynamics that make you prone to injury.

Here is an illustration of how I see the hyoid articulating with the rest of the spinal posture:

So you might see that both the pull and push of the hyoid are part of opposing postural movements, both of which should exist in balance to each other.

Although the hyoid is not directly mentioned, I think this video on Reichian breathing touches on the same subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQ5XqOWcGlU

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Posted : 02/06/2019 3:52 pm
UCLAnewbie
Active Member

There is a force generated to your maxilla but is nearly not enough to displace it to any degree. It is placebo at best.

It only works before your suture has infused indefinitely. Mewing, chin tuck, or proper swallow can solidify proper habits but it will not change your craniofacial complex once your suture has completely fused. Chewing can strengthen masseter muscles which mimics mandible changes, but your maxilla does NOT change to any degree. And your chin does not come forward.

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Posted : 02/06/2019 4:10 pm
UCLAnewbie
Active Member
Posted by: krollic

reminds me of the thread we talked in a few months ago on that exercise i made up. https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/an-effective-exercise-to-strengthen-the-root-of-the-tongue/

i'd suggest you start taking control of the root and applying it upwards w/o swallowing. you can get an even more incredible amount of force for a longer period of time. i think it's a fantastic exercise for building strength. and is effective for driving the maxilla up and forward and expanding your airway

As far as I know, there is no way to drive the maxilla up and forwards even with current modern orthodontistry methods. I do not think an "exercise" you developed in your backyard at home can even displace that of which professionals cannot do. Please do not spread false information unless you have research to back up your claims.

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Posted : 02/06/2019 4:14 pm
drunkwithcoffee
Estimable Member
Posted by: UCLAnewbie

There is a force generated to your maxilla but is nearly not enough to displace it to any degree. It is placebo at best.

It only works before your suture has infused indefinitely. Mewing, chin tuck, or proper swallow can solidify proper habits but it will not change your craniofacial complex once your suture has completely fused. Chewing can strengthen masseter muscles which mimics mandible changes, but your maxilla does NOT change to any degree. And your chin does not come forward.

Please watch this video, which shows bone remodeling and maxillary change is possible at any age.  He achieved these changes by also using a homeoblock device, so yes, there is debate as to whether the tongue alone can achieve the same amount of change.  But as for bones/the maxilla itself, there's no question they *can* change.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=R5S5AZ50pAE&app=desktop

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Topic starter Posted : 02/06/2019 4:38 pm
krollic liked
Roflcopters
Trusted Member
krollic
Reputable Member
Posted by: drunkwithcoffee

@krollic when you say "pull down on the hyoid" in the last paragraph, do you mean pull it down with your fingers?

no. i talk about the finger clasp only for the purposes of getting a better feel for the movement of the hyoid. 

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Posted : 02/06/2019 6:39 pm
Freddie
Eminent Member
Posted by: UCLAnewbie

There is a force generated to your maxilla but is nearly not enough to displace it to any degree. It is placebo at best.

It only works before your suture has infused indefinitely. Mewing, chin tuck, or proper swallow can solidify proper habits but it will not change your craniofacial complex once your suture has completely fused. Chewing can strengthen masseter muscles which mimics mandible changes, but your maxilla does NOT change to any degree. And your chin does not come forward.

As I know suture never fuse until your 80’s. 

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Posted : 02/06/2019 7:16 pm
Freddie
Eminent Member
Posted by: UCLAnewbie

There is a force generated to your maxilla but is nearly not enough to displace it to any degree. It is placebo at best.

It only works before your suture has infused indefinitely. Mewing, chin tuck, or proper swallow can solidify proper habits but it will not change your craniofacial complex once your suture has completely fused. Chewing can strengthen masseter muscles which mimics mandible changes, but your maxilla does NOT change to any degree. And your chin does not come forward.

As I know suture never fuse until your 80’s. 

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Posted : 02/06/2019 7:17 pm
drunkwithcoffee
Estimable Member

@krollic so you're pulling it down with pure tongue posture, correct? Thank you for detailing these exercises, looking forward to trying them out!

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Topic starter Posted : 03/06/2019 8:41 pm
krollic
Reputable Member

roger. gl

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Posted : 03/06/2019 9:11 pm
bundfalke
Trusted Member
Posted by: Roflcopters

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S0034-72992006000200004&script=sci_arttext&tlng=en

Im impressed. How on earth did a acrylic expander increase nasal and even overall facial width? Its a tooth-anchored device.

I wish that study had more pictures of the device

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Posted : 04/06/2019 9:53 am