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24 Male – Will be getting an MSE consult soon with local Ortho

6 Posts
3 Users
Posts: 6
Topic starter

I will be documenting my journey here.

I live in the Bay Area, California. Will be seeing Phelps and Cohen Orthodontics, San Jose and Los Gatos California for a consult within a week or two. 

Was wondering if anyone has any experience with this provider or know any user that has. 

 I seek to expand for the following reasons:

1. Increased tounge space

2. Increased nasal breathing (mine is alright, but the more the merrier)

3. Any lateral expansion of zygotes and midface compaction would be icing on the cake.


Even before any consult I already plan on only doing 1-turn a day, as at 24 I understand my bones are tight and I would like to avoid any complications with this procedure. Slow and steady.


 I would have liked Dr. Ting, he is far but worth it. Unfortunetly he no longer sees patients outside So Cal…




Posted : 24/06/2021 1:17 am
Apollo and Apollo reacted
Posts: 6
Topic starter

MSE going in August 18th.

I have tons of cool scans to share with you all.

We will be doing facemask.

Sorry its taking so long.

Posted : 31/07/2021 6:09 pm
Posts: 6

Thanks for sharing man I look forward to seeing your progress, I am 23 and will likely be getting MSE one day myself.

Posted : 05/08/2021 6:23 pm
Jawz24 and Jawz24 reacted
Posts: 6
Topic starter

Ok so this is to just summarize my experience so far, I will compile two separate posts in the future.
One of the first mse attempt.
And one of the second.
I just want to get this expansion over, then compile it all with scans for each round. 

I am about to finish my second mse.

The first MSE was 10mm, I maxed it out. No split, maybe 1 or 2mm of expansion. No screw drag, my skull literally just absorbed the rest of the expansion.
Second time around, got cortical puncture. Now I’ve definitely gotten some expansion. Bite has changed, I can feel it.

No spit, no diastema, but I have gotten 6.7mm of expansion. Mostly from the second round of mse.
Most of the expansion has been achieved in the veeeery middle of the suture. Not front split, no back split which is odd.

I am willing to try a third time with a third device (I am low-key looking for something with more surface area than 4 tads, maybe 6 tads?)
I think I just need more surface area, I don’t need something stronger as there has been no warping.

Then if I get no diastema or clean split all the way through I may just get surgical assist fuck it.

I also did Facemask for three months and got 1.5mm of forward growth at 25 y/o M. VERY promising…
Thats 0.5mm of growth per month, and I wasn’t even going try hard with it. That could mean 6mm of forward growth in a year, 12mm in 2 years!!!

Ortho wanted me to stop pulling. Not sure why but she said she wanted me to finish expanding first.
Also mentioned she could fashion a retainer and I could wear the FM in perpetuity. I will ask her about that soon.

My periodontist said I have a below average thickness to my hard palate.
mine is around 4 or 4.5mm. Which he said has been shown to be problematic in some research that has been done.
I would have thought that would be a good thing. Less resistance, right? Well, I’m about to “expand” 20mm with only 6.7mm of it actually to show.

So that’s just an update. I’m 53/70ish turns for my 2nd 10mm mse.

My questions though are:

1) Is there a device that could hold onto more bone and hopefully cause a full-on split of the hard palate?

2) Now that I know I can potentially reap great benefits from the FM. I want to know if pulling just a bit higher from the occlusion plane is in fact
the best way to do it. I asked my ortho if I can get a CCW rotation from the FM. She said it only “pulls it forward” but would not say it would cause
a rotation upward. A CCW obviously would be great, and I do want to maximize this things effectiveness. I’ve heard 10 degrees above occlusion plane is ideal. Will that close up the dark circles below my eyes and shorten mid-face?

I will share all before and afters.





Posted : 03/03/2022 3:29 am
Posts: 275
Posted by: @jawz24

I also did Facemask for three months and got 1.5mm of forward growth at 25 y/o M. VERY promising…


This could potentially be entirely (or at least partially) due to the lateral expansion.  I don’t have the references handy at the moment (since I am not doing MSE) but as I looked into all of these things a few years back, there was general consensus across a number of doctors (and I actually did find some reference in a clinical journal) that lateral expansion will create a small amount of forward response as well as the body aims to maintain the overall “arch” shape to your teeth.

FM may have had some positive benefit – there’s no way I can say one way or the other in your case or anyone’s.  But there is a bit of consensus out there that lateral growth does trigger the body into responding to a degree in saggital as well.

Posted : 03/03/2022 10:20 am
Posts: 6
Topic starter

@toomer Yea, I’ve heard that too. MSE will get you a few mm of forward growth. This 1.5mm I got was during my first MSE which didn’t really get me any expansion. This is why I’m chalking up the forward growth to the FM. We will see though when I begin FM again.

Posted : 03/03/2022 5:23 pm