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2 years of "mewing" and my intermolar width went from 37mm to 36.1mm  

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Le_Fort_or_Bust
Trusted Member

So my palate got more narrow by 1 mm approx.

Amazing.

This is because I did not wear my plastic retainer on upper teeth and instead thought that "proper head posture" and "mewing" will prevent teeth from relapsing back to pre-braces stage. I was wrong. They did relapse a bit. Mewing did jack sh**.

 

I'm researching ways to get MSE now, because mewing is clearly a cope and did nothing for me.

And WAIT, WAIT! I already know what your answer will be: "B-b-b-but u were doin' it wrong ! ! 11" yeah, how convenient. Except I've been on these forums for like 3 years and watched every orthothropics video there is. But of course, it was me doing it wrong instead of admitting it might just not work in adults. Mike Mew always had that block jaw and chewing dose increase hypertrophy in masseters, but it made my face look like an ugly brick and once I stopped chewing my face looked way better and more chiseled.  

30 yo, need to expand palate, move maxilla upward and forward, reduce gonial angle.

Quote
Posted : 24/01/2020 9:05 am
Oatmeal
Trusted Member

to be honest chewing is pretty useless

ReplyQuote
Posted : 24/01/2020 9:36 am
jungerAdonis
Active Member

I like your biography. Occupation: "professional mewer". Seemed like you were really convinced

Mewing helped me a lot, but i am not 30 years old maybe thats why

ReplyQuote
Posted : 24/01/2020 11:24 am
thebeetle
Active Member

Sorry to hear that. How did you measure your IMW?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 24/01/2020 12:06 pm
Le_Fort_or_Bust
Trusted Member

@thebeetle

I have digital calipers

30 yo, need to expand palate, move maxilla upward and forward, reduce gonial angle.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 24/01/2020 12:22 pm
thebeetle
Active Member

@le_fort_or_bust

Did you also make an impression or did you stick them into your mouth?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 24/01/2020 12:29 pm
Le_Fort_or_Bust
Trusted Member
Posted by: @thebeetle

@le_fort_or_bust

Did you also make an impression or did you stick them into your mouth?

I will be getting impression soon. I did stick them in my mouf

30 yo, need to expand palate, move maxilla upward and forward, reduce gonial angle.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 24/01/2020 12:32 pm
thebeetle
Active Member

@le_fort_or_bust

Thanks for your quick reply by the way. Did you make any measurements between this one and the last one?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 24/01/2020 12:35 pm
Progress
Member Moderator

0.9mm is within the margin of error. I have noticed that there can be a whole mm difference between morning and night IMW. It sounds more likely that no movement has taken place than negative movement. Sad to hear that your results have been unsatisfactory.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 24/01/2020 12:59 pm
Le_Fort_or_Bust
Trusted Member
Posted by: @thebeetle

@le_fort_or_bust

Thanks for your quick reply by the way. Did you make any measurements between this one and the last one?

I have last casts photographed and measured and posted on forum in older threads. I will be getting done the same to new ones.

30 yo, need to expand palate, move maxilla upward and forward, reduce gonial angle.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 24/01/2020 1:07 pm
gewgerg
Active Member

I went from a 6 toothed smile to a 14 toothed smile so I'm not sure why it couldn't work for you. I am a lot younger than you I suppose.

sure you were doing it right? suction hold? doing it 24/7? having good pelvic and neck posture

ReplyQuote
Posted : 24/01/2020 1:17 pm
max iller
Eminent Member

does your tongue fit in your palate? maybe you just have a tiny tongue

ReplyQuote
Posted : 24/01/2020 3:39 pm
Le_Fort_or_Bust
Trusted Member
Posted by: @gewgerg

I went from a 6 toothed smile to a 14 toothed smile so I'm not sure why it couldn't work for you. I am a lot younger than you I suppose.

sure you were doing it right? suction hold? doing it 24/7? having good pelvic and neck posture

Nobody on this earth is holding mewing 24/7, that is literally impossible by definition as I can't do boxing while nose breathing or eating while nose breathing or running sprint while nose breathing.

It worked for you because you are young I reckon, what is your age?

@max iller, my intermolar is 36 mm width so it fits fine, but my maxilla is still rather narrow.

30 yo, need to expand palate, move maxilla upward and forward, reduce gonial angle.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 24/01/2020 4:11 pm
max iller
Eminent Member

@le_fort_or_bust

The palate will only get as wide as your tongue, sounds like you may already be at peak width if your tongue slots nicely. What about the rest of your face? With your palatal width out the way maybe time to focus elsewhere? spine, shoulders, hips, feet?

One of my ex's had a tiny tongue and was still gorgeous dont fret my guy

I kno the pain, I put in my old retainer from when I just came off braces years ago expecting it to be too small and it fit ez when i thought for sure i'd expanded a [Rude Language or Insults are not tolerated] tonne, was depressed for the whole day smh

You'll get back on it man dw <3

ReplyQuote
Posted : 24/01/2020 4:33 pm
Le_Fort_or_Bust
Trusted Member

Uhh, what? No, I want wider palate and move maxilla forward to also improve airways and aesthetics. My mose is narrow and face is long due to narrow palate.

30 yo, need to expand palate, move maxilla upward and forward, reduce gonial angle.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 24/01/2020 4:58 pm
max iller
Eminent Member

@le_fort_or_bust

keep mewin brotha

ReplyQuote
Posted : 24/01/2020 6:36 pm
gewgerg
Active Member

@le_fort_or_bust

I'm 16 + thumbpulled for 30 mins every day with a lot of strength

ReplyQuote
Posted : 25/01/2020 1:40 pm
Elwynn
Estimable Member

@sparkyyy

Using lookism's "cope" terminology is a cope. Our whole lives are one big cope. So, we might as well just do our best coping.

24 years old

ReplyQuote
Posted : 25/01/2020 3:28 pm
widepalatebros
New Member

You are 30 years old buddy, you are not an infant/teen. You just wasted 3 years of life, should have gone straight to using growth appliances or getting surgery. Regardless of what this forum thinks, palatal expansion (without treatment) over 25 is minimal at best. But still, it is good that you have corrected your tongue posture, it will help prevent your maxilla from collapsing further.

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Posted : 26/01/2020 3:32 am
drunkwithcoffee
Trusted Member

Going to be that guy - I highly doubt you were doing it right.

The fact that you think being on these forums for 3 years and watching mewing videos means you were mewing correctly is a MAJOR red flag.  I'm 2 years into mewing and I'm still realizing every week that the way I was doing it last week was not optimal (my tongue wasn't far back enough, my tongue wasn't spread out as much as it should be, etc.).

It's not about the knowledge of how to mew, it's about developing mind-body awareness.  The learning curve for mewing is massive.  The number of people on any orthotropic forum mewing correctly is likely tiny.  

Maybe you have been doing it right this whole time, but unless you've worked with an actual orthotropic doctor, I'm going to say those chances are very slim.  Watching videos and reading these forums are simply not enough, no matter how much time you've spent doing it. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 26/01/2020 10:20 am
Loliboly, Autokrator, Oatmeal and 2 people liked
Elwynn
Estimable Member

@drunkwithcoffee

I can confirm that I've been on this forum for about 2 years, and although I believed that I have been mewing correctly for the first year and a half, I've only learned how to do a proper tongue suction hold and lip seal in the past few mouths. Undoubtedly, I'm still not doing it 100% right, but my progress in my posture does show how easy it is to fool yourself that your posture is good.

It think it's also worth mentioning that we probably don't fully understand all the aspects of good posture since orthotropics is still fairly new. Certainly, we don't yet completely understand the postural mechanisms that affect a person's facial development. For instance, I rarely saw posts about lip seal here, until recently. That's a peace of the puzzle that many have been missing, and surely, there's more to come.

24 years old

ReplyQuote
Posted : 26/01/2020 1:00 pm
Loliboly liked
jungerAdonis
Active Member
Posted by: @elwynn

It think it's also worth mentioning that we probably don't fully understand all the aspects of good posture since orthotropics is still fairly new. Certainly, we don't yet completely understand the postural mechanisms that affect a person's facial development. For instance, I rarely saw posts about lip seal here, until recently. That's a peace of the puzzle that many have been missing, and surely, there's more to come.

To your lip seal aspect. I learned about lip seal 1,5 months ago and everything improved much faster. I feel like more difference happened since then than in my 1 year progress before that.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 26/01/2020 1:15 pm
drunkwithcoffee
Trusted Member

@Elwynn agreed, it's not about knowledge it's about building mind-body awareness which is a long, labor-intensive process.  

Of course, the most efficient way is to see an actual orthotropic doctor.  But as long as all your knowledge/practice is coming from reading forums and watching videos, it's likely you're doing *something* incorrectly.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 26/01/2020 1:49 pm
EddieMoney
Reputable Member

Case in point, I feel like only until early half of 2019 that I learned to engage my posterior third. Then lip seal. Couple that with the fact I had been "mewing" since 2017, and one can easily deduct that progress for almost 2 years would have been minimal at best. So in other words there is a chance I have been doing it all wrong for at least 2 years.

Mewing isn't something like martial Arts of weightlifting. You don't learn mewing on day 1. You may learn it on day 750. On day 1 you just started figuring out where your tongue belongs. In fact, nobody who isn't an orthotropist or oral myofunctional therapist is even talking about much facial muscle control. I have only recently learned that my right cheek muscles have been slack my whole life, and combined with mostly biting on my back right molars it caused not only my bite to lean right but also my right canine tooth to be proclined too much due to my facial muscles not controlling its projection.

Also, mandible position never gets discussed beyond just "touch your molars". Yet for me this is impossible since I have a Class 3 pattern in which only 2/6 molars can touch in either upper or lower jaw. So instead of 12 molars being in contact, just 4 are. 

In other words, how can you expect to make much progress with so little investment? Watching videos made by people who probably know slightly more than your average TGW poster will hardly make you any progress. I know Mike Mew releases info on video but the man has a business to run. He won't be your personal doctor unless you hire him. 

Claiming that you weren't doing it wrong isn't based on anything, either. How do you know your technique was perfect or that you were engaging all necessary musculature?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 26/01/2020 3:47 pm
noises
Eminent Member

I wonder if the posterior tongue defaulting to an upright position is a good benchmark for whether or not one has been doing it right. I can’t NOT mew. When I try to breathe without thinking about my tongue it raises up to block my airway and I start snoring loudly unless I manually temper the situation.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 26/01/2020 4:08 pm
Le_Fort_or_Bust
Trusted Member
Posted by: @drunkwithcoffee

Going to be that guy - I highly doubt you were doing it right.

The fact that you think being on these forums for 3 years and watching mewing videos means you were mewing correctly is a MAJOR red flag. 

Sorry, but this is bullshit. Literally always can use the "UR NoT DOin it RITE!!11" excuse for everything. 

 

The fact that I've been years on these forums and following Mike means that PERCENTAGE WISE and PROBABILITY WISE there is WAY HIGHER chance of me doing it right, rather than wrong. Pure maths.

 

I didn't mention part where I went to actual myofunctional therapy clinic where they instructed me how to mew. I bet 99% of forum hasn't been to one, but sure, it's all me doing it "rong" and not mewing being BS in adults.

 

Watching videos made by people who probably know slightly more than your average TGW poster will hardly make you any progress. 

Orhtothropics is Mike Mew's official channel, I don't watch broscientists or hacks.

30 yo, need to expand palate, move maxilla upward and forward, reduce gonial angle.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 27/01/2020 5:21 am
drunkwithcoffee
Trusted Member

It's not an excuse, it's the reality.  Statistically most people who are trying to mew are overwhelmingly likely to be doing it wrong, because most people are not going to an orthotropic doctor.

I'm glad you've at least seen a licensed doctor.  That said, your word choice still makes me wonder whether you're truly doing it right.  You keep referring back to knowledge as evidence that you are, but everyone who's claimed to have seen results says it's not about the knowledge, but about deepening the "feeling" of mewing.  In other words, improving mind-body connection.

If you're not continually readjusting / "getting better" at mewing every few days or few weeks, I think it's very likely you haven't had optimal tongue position in the last 3 years.  Sorry, I know that's blunt and harsh, but I'm skeptical about your case.

In any case, mewing is a slow process even if you *are* doing it correctly so I think at your age, going the appliance route definitely makes more sense. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 27/01/2020 11:10 am
RamonT
Trusted Member

When one is mewing properly, He will know it and feel it without a doubt:

The tongue will be in full control pressing against the soft palate at the strength you want.

You will feel the tongue maxilla and zygos moving, by the way, they also move individually.

You will breathe better, you will hear better, will hear sharp sounds and also see starts every once in a while, you will feel your nose trying to take off and lots of pressure there.

You will feel like your skull is trying to take off and lift you off the ground.

You will feel sharp pops in the stem of the brain/beginning of the spine and all around the skull as you create brutal force with the tongue.

You will feel and sense the trampoline-like, that Dr. Mew talked about.

Your Adam's apple will gradually come higher behind your chin.

You will feel some kind of vibrating tension and adjustment in the whole head and down to the sacrum bone.

 

I guess in the near future I can add more of the stuff I feel when I mew to this list.

IMHO, Mewing should be combined with facial exercise., I believe one can develop the whole head and neck without mewing whatsoever just doing facial gesture/exercises, however since mewing is here to stay why not add it to the mix.

" Lots of ways to get to Rome.

P.S. For those who think they are old..... I'm 55 and have been mewing for almost 2 years. Dedication,continue practise is the key once you learn to mew properly.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 27/01/2020 3:33 pm
Le_Fort_or_Bust
Trusted Member
Posted by: @drunkwithcoffee

It's not an excuse, it's the reality.  Statistically most people who are trying to mew are overwhelmingly likely to be doing it wrong, because most people are not going to an orthotropic doctor.

I'm glad you've at least seen a licensed doctor.  That said, your word choice still makes me wonder whether you're truly doing it right.  You keep referring back to knowledge as evidence that you are, but everyone who's claimed to have seen results says it's not about the knowledge, but about deepening the "feeling" of mewing.  In other words, improving mind-body connection.

If you're not continually readjusting / "getting better" at mewing every few days or few weeks, I think it's very likely you haven't had optimal tongue position in the last 3 years.  Sorry, I know that's blunt and harsh, but I'm skeptical about your case.

In any case, mewing is a slow process even if you *are* doing it correctly so I think at your age, going the appliance route definitely makes more sense. 

Goalpushing: The Post.

 

Whatever I do I must be doing it wrong.  If I visit myofunctional clinic I must still be doing it wrong. Yes, everyone for whom it doesn't work must be doing it wrong. It can't be the fact that mewing might not really be that effective or effective at all (in adults), NOPE

30 yo, need to expand palate, move maxilla upward and forward, reduce gonial angle.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 27/01/2020 4:07 pm
Le_Fort_or_Bust
Trusted Member
Posted by: @ramont

When one is mewing properly, He will know it and feel it without a doubt:

The tongue will be in full control pressing against the soft palate at the strength you want.

You will feel the tongue maxilla and zygos moving, by the way, they also move individually.

You will breathe better, you will hear better, will hear sharp sounds and also see starts every once in a while, you will feel your nose trying to take off and lots of pressure there.

You will feel like your skull is trying to take off and lift you off the ground.

You will feel sharp pops in the stem of the brain/beginning of the spine and all around the skull as you create brutal force with the tongue.

You will feel and sense the trampoline-like, that Dr. Mew talked about.

Your Adam's apple will gradually come higher behind your chin.

You will feel some kind of vibrating tension and adjustment in the whole head and down to the sacrum bone.

 

I guess in the near future I can add more of the stuff I feel when I mew to this list.

IMHO, Mewing should be combined with facial exercise., I believe one can develop the whole head and neck without mewing whatsoever just doing facial gesture/exercises, however since mewing is here to stay why not add it to the mix.

" Lots of ways to get to Rome.

P.S. For those who think they are old..... I'm 55 and have been mewing for almost 2 years. Dedication,continue practise is the key once you learn to mew properly.

Sorry, I don't believe this. Sounds cult-like almost. Next thing I will read is that it cures cancer. Why can't we look at it rationally. Yes, mewing works in developing bones and sometimes can help slightly in adults maybe....it is NOT panacea. So much placebo

30 yo, need to expand palate, move maxilla upward and forward, reduce gonial angle.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 27/01/2020 4:09 pm
drunkwithcoffee
Trusted Member

I do admit after re-reading my posts that it feels like I keep moving the goalpost.  My fault on lack of clarity.

My final point in this is that to me the words you use just don't match the words of those who have claimed progress.  You keep referencing knowledge as evidence that you've been mewing correctly, but everything we know about mewing so far is that there's so much more than just knowledge.  

I empathize with your frustration, but I also think you may not have gotten the full picture in these last 3 years.

Any way, going back to what I said in the last post, it sounds like seeking appliance treatment is absolutely the right way to go for your situation, and I wish you the best.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 27/01/2020 7:08 pm
RamonT
Trusted Member
Posted by: @le_fort_or_bust
Posted by: @ramont

When one is mewing properly, He will know it and feel it without a doubt:

The tongue will be in full control pressing against the soft palate at the strength you want.

You will feel the tongue maxilla and zygos moving, by the way, they also move individually.

You will breathe better, you will hear better, will hear sharp sounds and also see starts every once in a while, you will feel your nose trying to take off and lots of pressure there.

You will feel like your skull is trying to take off and lift you off the ground.

You will feel sharp pops in the stem of the brain/beginning of the spine and all around the skull as you create brutal force with the tongue.

You will feel and sense the trampoline-like, that Dr. Mew talked about.

Your Adam's apple will gradually come higher behind your chin.

You will feel some kind of vibrating tension and adjustment in the whole head and down to the sacrum bone.

 

I guess in the near future I can add more of the stuff I feel when I mew to this list.

IMHO, Mewing should be combined with facial exercise., I believe one can develop the whole head and neck without mewing whatsoever just doing facial gesture/exercises, however since mewing is here to stay why not add it to the mix.

" Lots of ways to get to Rome.

P.S. For those who think they are old..... I'm 55 and have been mewing for almost 2 years. Dedication,continue practise is the key once you learn to mew properly.

Sorry, I don't believe this. Sounds cult-like almost. Next thing I will read is that it cures cancer. Why can't we look at it rationally. Yes, mewing works in developing bones and sometimes can help slightly in adults maybe....it is NOT panacea. So much placebo

I respect your opinion totally, we usually believe what we want to believe and I believe that is a good thing.

I assure you that if you or any of the guys in this forum one day meet me in person, some of you would heed a bit of the stuff I have written in this forum.

Theories are great and all that, but nothing beats practice.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 27/01/2020 10:50 pm
noises
Eminent Member
Posted by: @noises

I wonder if the posterior tongue defaulting to an upright position is a good benchmark for whether or not one has been doing it right. I can’t NOT mew. When I try to breathe without thinking about my tongue it raises up to block my airway and I start snoring loudly unless I manually temper the situation.

Am I the only one? I pretty much can't lower my tongue anymore, the only way for me not to mew is by sticking my tongue out or mouth breathing. I never had good oral posture prior to mewing, I've seen footage of myself from when I was less than 5 years old and I already had under-eye circles, an elongated midface and my mouth was hanging ajar all the time.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 28/01/2020 9:32 am
TGW
 TGW
TGW Admin Admin

Moved to Adult Case Discussions Subforum

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Posted : 30/01/2020 11:23 am
Anchilles
Active Member

I found out mewing back in 2015, since then i am applying correct  tongue posture. My IMW stayed the same, how ever my face changed my jawline become more horizontal around 120 degree angle, before that my jawline was non existent. But my face didnt changed in width.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 31/01/2020 7:28 am
Oatmeal
Trusted Member

@ico123

how did you measure your imw? and, how recessed is your face overall anyway?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 31/01/2020 7:58 am
Sergio-OMS
Trusted Member
Posted by: @le_fort_or_bust

So my palate got more narrow by 1 mm approx.

Amazing.

This is because I did not wear my plastic retainer on upper teeth and instead thought that "proper head posture" and "mewing" will prevent teeth from relapsing back to pre-braces stage. I was wrong. They did relapse a bit. Mewing did jack sh**.

 

I'm researching ways to get MSE now, because mewing is clearly a cope and did nothing for me.

And WAIT, WAIT! I already know what your answer will be: "B-b-b-but u were doin' it wrong ! ! 11" yeah, how convenient. Except I've been on these forums for like 3 years and watched every orthothropics video there is. But of course, it was me doing it wrong instead of admitting it might just not work in adults. Mike Mew always had that block jaw and chewing dose increase hypertrophy in masseters, but it made my face look like an ugly brick and once I stopped chewing my face looked way better and more chiseled.  

I haven't read the rest of the messages in this thread, and I will not, but there is an explanation that looks very plausible to me.

If you push your front teeth with your tongue, they get protruded, thus the rest of the teeth have to keep in touch, they move mesialy (they "slide" forward) and the arch becomes narrower at the back.

Besides, clenching your teeth strongly can produce tooth wear, so if you were measuring in some cuspids of the molars the second measurement could have been more imprecise.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 31/01/2020 8:34 am
Robbie343
Trusted Member

@le_fort_or_bust

Has your structure gotten any worse since growth stopped or has it pretty much stayed the same? 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 31/01/2020 9:45 pm
Rockyp33
Reputable Member

Well yeah your tongue strength is much weaker than your appliance. The saying is it gets worse  before it gets better but as an adult mewing is mianly for maintainence and takes a lot of dedication to see any improvement. probably better to get an expander than mew after.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 02/02/2020 8:23 pm
Slinky
Trusted Member

I'm in the same boat. Been 2 years and zero results so far. I'm 19 now. My IMW is still 39mm 🙁

I believe unless you have a really wide palate which would allow for day/night mewing, you can't make any progress. Having narrow palate is why mewing feels different every single day for most people. Mike mew himself said this

ReplyQuote
Posted : 06/02/2020 10:59 am
gee
 gee
Active Member

@slinky

Same 

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 08/02/2020 9:50 pm
Le_Fort_or_Bust
Trusted Member
Posted by: @sergio-oms
Posted by: @le_fort_or_bust

So my palate got more narrow by 1 mm approx.

Amazing.

This is because I did not wear my plastic retainer on upper teeth and instead thought that "proper head posture" and "mewing" will prevent teeth from relapsing back to pre-braces stage. I was wrong. They did relapse a bit. Mewing did jack sh**.

 

I'm researching ways to get MSE now, because mewing is clearly a cope and did nothing for me.

And WAIT, WAIT! I already know what your answer will be: "B-b-b-but u were doin' it wrong ! ! 11" yeah, how convenient. Except I've been on these forums for like 3 years and watched every orthothropics video there is. But of course, it was me doing it wrong instead of admitting it might just not work in adults. Mike Mew always had that block jaw and chewing dose increase hypertrophy in masseters, but it made my face look like an ugly brick and once I stopped chewing my face looked way better and more chiseled.  

I haven't read the rest of the messages in this thread, and I will not, but there is an explanation that looks very plausible to me.

If you push your front teeth with your tongue, they get protruded, thus the rest of the teeth have to keep in touch, they move mesialy (they "slide" forward) and the arch becomes narrower at the back.

Besides, clenching your teeth strongly can produce tooth wear, so if you were measuring in some cuspids of the molars the second measurement could have been more imprecise.

I don't push my front teeth when moving Sergio!

30 yo, need to expand palate, move maxilla upward and forward, reduce gonial angle.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/02/2020 2:26 am
Sergio-OMS
Trusted Member
Posted by: @le_fort_or_bust
Posted by: @sergio-oms
Posted by: @le_fort_or_bust

So my palate got more narrow by 1 mm approx.

Amazing.

This is because I did not wear my plastic retainer on upper teeth and instead thought that "proper head posture" and "mewing" will prevent teeth from relapsing back to pre-braces stage. I was wrong. They did relapse a bit. Mewing did jack sh**.

 

I'm researching ways to get MSE now, because mewing is clearly a cope and did nothing for me.

And WAIT, WAIT! I already know what your answer will be: "B-b-b-but u were doin' it wrong ! ! 11" yeah, how convenient. Except I've been on these forums for like 3 years and watched every orthothropics video there is. But of course, it was me doing it wrong instead of admitting it might just not work in adults. Mike Mew always had that block jaw and chewing dose increase hypertrophy in masseters, but it made my face look like an ugly brick and once I stopped chewing my face looked way better and more chiseled.  

I haven't read the rest of the messages in this thread, and I will not, but there is an explanation that looks very plausible to me.

If you push your front teeth with your tongue, they get protruded, thus the rest of the teeth have to keep in touch, they move mesialy (they "slide" forward) and the arch becomes narrower at the back.

Besides, clenching your teeth strongly can produce tooth wear, so if you were measuring in some cuspids of the molars the second measurement could have been more imprecise.

I don't push my front teeth when moving Sergio!

Ok!

ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/02/2020 10:52 am
Greensmoothies
Estimable Member

Yeah, I remember when I got to the 3 year mark and measured. I got a 1.5mm increase and thought that was so bad, but it's probably a typical result. I don't really agree with what seems like a lot of posters here who expect results after a year or even months or "you're doing it wrong". Our age, general health and how we start out matters a lot. You mew according to what your progress permits. That's what people mean when they say something like, they were mewing a year or so and then finally they learnt how to mew correctly. But I suspect it has more to do with the structural changes that occurred which then permitted them to mew in a better way. People who get dental work done to help speed up their progress just seem to have a much easier go of things. I think I had success without dental intervention because I'm not really in touch with my feelings so I never felt frustrated with this work. And I didn't have issues that can only be fixed with dental intervention. Yes, instead of feeling frustrated, I channeled that frustration in to hard mewing which I did for 2 years if you can believe it! And believe me, I felt real dumb after the fact. If I could go back in time I'd go to a dentist instead.

Remember this pain... and let it activate you.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/02/2020 11:55 pm
ITZY_BITZY
Active Member

Mewing simply doesn't work..... (i have been mewing for 2 and half years now 0 results) maybe in children like between 5-10 years old..... but it doesn't work in adults at all........ even Astro sky (the god of mewing) have the same exact recessed profile when he was a teen.... he just lost body fat and got hollow cheeks due to chewing..... if you say it doesn't work people here will try to fool themselves telling you you are doing it wrong, or simply it isn't for you...... but then they will tell others mewing is for everybody.... lol..... i am just never going to comeback to this COPE site again and just get MSE or maybe surgery after that....

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Posted : 10/02/2020 9:47 pm
Elwynn
Estimable Member

@itzy_bitzy

The problem is that people get into mewing with completely unrealistic expectations. Mewing is not some trendy "trick" that was invented for the explicit purpose of turning those with unattractive facial features into models. Mewing is simply the practice of improving one's oral posture in order to bring it to the most natural and healthy standard. Some degree of aesthetic improvement is a likely consequence, but we shouldn't enter into this thinking that it's some sort of a promise.

I, like several users on here, have seen my breathing greatly improve. My sinuses are far less congested, I no longer wake up groggy, and there is no drool on my pillow in the morning any more. I also do not suffer from brainfog as frequently. I consider these the direct result of mewing and the ability to suction my tongue much further onto my palate than before. It is unfortunate that so few here appreciate the health improvements that a better oral posture can provide. In relation to my appearance, I have observed my cheekbones becoming more prominent, my masseters growing larger, and my mid-section - either due to minor skeletal change or significant soft-tissue improvement - appears noticeably wider. These are small aesthetic changes, to be sure, but if you've got your expectations set reasonably, they are a welcome sight.

Ultimately, mewing is still in its early days and it's going to take more time before we'll be able to provide people with clear instructions on how to fix CFD. I believe that we'll get there eventually, but for the time being, it's important to adjust expectations and be patient. I'm leaning towards the belief now that for adults to achieve noticeable skeletal change, mewing will most likely have to be coupled with appliances, which is why I will be trying out a palate expander soon.

Mewing is only a cope if you have entered into it expecting that it will be a sure-fire way for you to become a model.

24 years old

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Posted : 10/02/2020 11:07 pm
Slinky
Trusted Member

Mike mew's older videos are responsible for unrealistic expectations among mewing community. Honestly, I just want to create enough space for my wisdoms. Otherwise removing them is inevitable

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Posted : 11/02/2020 5:41 am
Sergio-OMS
Trusted Member

@slinky

The only way you can create space for them is by pushing the rest of the teeth forward and outwards. Are you sure you want that? Your facial skeleton is not going to grow by the so-called mewing

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Posted : 11/02/2020 6:34 am
Oatmeal
Trusted Member

@elwynn

My sleep has gotten a lot better. I drink a lot of coffee and take adderall, and yet I haven't ever slept better. jsut anecdotal tho lol

Anyway a lot of things that models can be genetic or, even not characteristic of good posture. I mean many of them have loaded themselves up with derma fillers or surgeries. not to say they dont have good looks regardless but i have my doubts

i think mewing can do a lot for both health and you appearence, but if you're expecting to look like someone else you should look inside yourself as one probably has their priorities set badly

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Posted : 11/02/2020 9:49 am
Slinky
Trusted Member
Posted by: @sergio-oms

@slinky

The only way you can create space for them is by pushing the rest of the teeth forward and outwards. Are you sure you want that? Your facial skeleton is not going to grow by the so-called mewing

A high ramus causes impacted wisdom teeth. I don't think pushing lower teeth forward will fix the problem?

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Posted : 11/02/2020 9:57 am
Elwynn
Estimable Member

@slinky

I agree that Mike Mew could have handled the "marketing" of mewing in a more fair manner.

@sergio-oms

I don't think that's entirely true. Several people on here who have expanded their palates, often with the help of an appliance (or not), have gained room for the wisdom teeth to grow.

24 years old

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Posted : 11/02/2020 4:44 pm
Agendum
Eminent Member

Mewing is a meme if you are >21, removeable expanders are also a meme >16.

This whole mewing hype grew because of zoomer youtubers like Astrosky which made the mistake of marketing the notion that any age group can be successful.

Progressive mewing is great for younger zoomers and a waste of time for skeletally fused >23+ year olds.

Less invasive or surgical options (MSE, SFOT,DOME, MARPE) need to be discussed instead for millennials and above because talking about mewing is a waste of time. Successful adult mewers are the exception not the rule. This is because when they start, they have the right conditions to mew, this is not possible for many people with high vaulted palates or very large healthy tongues that'd have to have a contortionist as a tongue,  simply structurally unfeasible.

"Oh you are not doing it right!" Its like telling someone with a 6th toe to fit their feet in a small shoe and then the person with the normal foot continues to put on the same shoe "See, its so simple."

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Posted : 15/02/2020 8:45 am
Elwynn
Estimable Member

@agendum

Mewing being a meme is not itself a judgement about its efficacy. Again, I agree that the promotion of mewing by certain people as a method of achieving model features was over-the-top. That being said, I think you're wrong to call mewing a waste of time, and you're committing a similar mistake to those who rushed into this with unrealistic expectations.

I, like several others here, have substantially benefited from mewing in terms of health. My sinuses have cleared, allowing me to breathe easier, I rarely wake up with flem in my throat anymore when previously that happened every morning, sleep is more refreshing, my lower back doesn't ache as often, my voice is deeper and I now find it much, much easier to maintain a correct posture. Dismissing these improvements as a waste of time is just unfair.

Aesthetically, my face changed little and most of the improvement happened in the soft-tissue. But I'm not disappointed, because I didn't have overblown expectations. I'm thankful for the health improvements, the minor facial improvements, and I believe that my better posture will over time facilitate more changes.

I do not think that I'm exceptional. It is true that many with CFD struggle to even achieve a correct oral posture, but it would have to be a truly rare case for there to be no improvement possible at all. Even a person who can't fit his tongue between his teeth can take some measures toward a better posture, by adjusting his neck, spine, developing a good lip seal, etc. and with the assistance of an appliance, those with very narrow IMW's will over time - hopefully - be able to engage their tongues correctly as well. The important thing is to understand that mewing in adults is still theoretical. Those who rushed into this with high expectations likely saw mewing as some well-developed method for becoming attractive (again, a fault of its marketing). But practicing a healthy oral posture is never a waste of time.

As for the frequently-repeated statement, "you're not doing it right": I've been "mewing" for 2 years now, and it has only been a few months ago that I figured out tongue suction, lip seal, etc., and it seems now that every month I'm learning something new, despite previously believing that I had corrected my posture well. It is very easy to fool yourself, but the truth is that hardly anybody with CFD can adopt an ideal oral posture from day one. It often takes months just learn how to mew well, and in my case it took a year and a half.

In regard to appliance and surgical treatment options, I'm all for exploring them, but we should not abandon mewing in their favor. Professionally-administered treatment and healthy posture practice are not at odds with one another; they should go hand-in-hand.

24 years old

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Posted : 15/02/2020 2:58 pm
Agendum
Eminent Member

@elwynn 

I dont dismiss the existence of improvements, Im dismissing it as only improvements being the result of exceptional starting conditions (like unique age and skeletal remodeling ability and starting palate surface.) What I mean when I say waste of time is wasting time for more effective means of correction, one cannot have correct tongue posture if they cannot start. This is for people with breathing/sleeping deficiencies who arent just looking to be more aesthetic.

The thing about mewing adults is that those who are successful and projecting success as a universal are exhibiting survivor bias. There are people here and there that have been doing it for even longer and followed this mewing phenomenon too and they have just as much if not more meticulousness in their practicing of mewing but hit the roadblock that is their own preexisting structural problems.

Incorrect mewing is a structural problem, not a technique issue. All these technical aspects and techniques that are known have already been tried by people.  What you think is new information is old news to other people who cannot act on these techniques due to their unique anatomical structural problems.

Im not disagreeing with the premise of mewing (that even adults can have incredibly slow but subtle craniofacial remodeling with holistic postural micro-corrections) but I am disagreeing that mewing alone without sufficient space to start can be corrected without surgery or bone-borne appliances. If we are focusing on mewing for people that are making zero or even negative progress, then surgical discussion should take priority for adults.

Its very easy and convenient to idealize techniques of mewing and think that the theory is applicable to a generality. It is not helping as a growing number of adults exhausting the proper correctness with no benefits and this reality needs to be acknowledged beyond "bro, you just not doing it right."

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Posted : 16/02/2020 12:40 am
Elwynn
Estimable Member

@agendum

Alright, I think I'm starting to see where you're coming from. If we're talking about people who have serious breathing or sleeping problems which would be difficult to correct in a reasonable amount of time through posture improvement (or, posture improvement is impossible to begin with, due to the severity of their CFD), then yes, you're right: those people would be better served looking into professional treatment options. However, for those who can afford to wait, mewing holds potential as a long-term method of improvement.

The thing about mewing adults is that those who are successful and projecting success as a universal are exhibiting survivor bias. There are people here and there that have been doing it for even longer and followed this mewing phenomenon too and they have just as much if not more meticulousness in their practicing of mewing but hit the roadblock that is their own preexisting structural problems.

I agree that those who have achieved real success with mewing are in the minority, but I think that those who are so prohibited by their own preexisting structural problems that they can't make any improvements are also fairly rare. I doubt that most people's CFD is so bad that it would prevent all progress. Now, if they will actually progress is a different question, because developing proper posture after having grown up with a defective one can be a task tantamount to a lifestyle change.

Incorrect mewing is a structural problem, not a technique issue. All these technical aspects and techniques that are known have already been tried by people.  What you think is new information is old news to other people who cannot act on these techniques due to their unique anatomical structural problems.

It's both. Yes, structural maldevelopments make developing a good oral posture difficult for most (and perhaps impossible for the few), but that doesn't disprove the fact that many lack proper technique. /r/orthotropics is a perfect testament to what I'm saying, because it's full of impressionable young people who get into mewing with overblown expectations, but lack commitment to the actual effort that it demands. It's not uncommon, for instance, to find there people who claim to have been mewing for 1-2 years, but who, through their other comments, reveal to have no knowledge of tongue suction, lip seal, etc. It's obviously not just about "putting" your tongue up, but that's the water-down teaching that they absorb. I don't hold any malice for those who get excited about mewing, and I wish them well, but is it really any wonder that so many of them give up and proclaim "mewing doesn't work"?

It's also worth mentioning that our understanding of the mechanisms at play is still incomplete, but expanding. When I started out, I didn't even know about lip seal, for example. I thought having lips together was sufficient. If I recall correctly, the thread on that subject was news to several people here.

I agree with your other points, and some of the general sentiment.

24 years old

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Posted : 17/02/2020 1:31 am
Anchilles
Active Member

@oatmeal I measure with a caliper, my face is more balanced my cheek bones are protruding and i have good jawline but my intermolar width is the same

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Posted : 04/05/2020 9:40 pm
Azrael
Estimable Member
Posted by: @agendum

This is because when they start, they have the right conditions to mew, this is not possible for many people with high vaulted palates or very large healthy tongues that'd have to have a contortionist as a tongue,  simply structurally unfeasible.

What are these conditions you speak of? I'm asking as an adult with a vaulted palate.

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Posted : 05/05/2020 3:13 am
Loliboly
Estimable Member

@gewger

Did you thumb pull in short sessions throughout the day, or did you just one long session of 30 minutes?

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Posted : 05/05/2020 3:38 am
Acnno
New Member

I have personally gained 2mm of intermolar width in a year of proper mewing, or maybe a bit less, approximately in 8 months [Found out about mewing in December 2018]

Current age: 19

The last time I checked my IMW it was 38mm [40mm now].

 


Also, I have to note that I did have correct tongue posture for the past 8 months all the time and have not hard mewed (+ I barely chintucked, sometimes not at all for weeks).

  • The way I check my intermolar width is by biting a banana peel and then measuring with a ruler (I know this might be a pretty weird way to do it (I have no other way to do it) but in my opinion it works. Please let me know if there is any other ''at home'' way to do it.

CHANGES I EXPERIENCED/SAW:

 

-cheeks slightly hollow whilst in front of ''good'' lightning (this was NOT the case before, I have lost 1kg since then but I don't think it could have impacted them)

-I can breathe through the nose at all times now, and the posterior third of my tongue doesn't restrict me from breathing like it did when I started mewing

-Cheekbones MIGHT be more pronounced (this could be placebo, not really very noticeable).

 

Mewing since early 2019
--------------------------------------------------------------
CURRENT ROUTINE WHICH I AM DOING [05.05.2020]:
--------------------------------------------------------------
-[new] HARD mewing
-chintucking for most of the time when alone
-chewing falim gum x5 per week for approximately 30minutes
-supplementing with vitamin k2 (mk4+mk7) and vitamin d3 (10,000iu)
-[new] ''BONESMASHING'' [gonna be very careful with this and do it only for my cheeksbones for now]
-[new] THUMBPULLING [doing it every hour for 2 to 5 minutes]

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Posted : 05/05/2020 4:34 am
Loliboly liked
Azrael
Estimable Member
Posted by: @ramont

You will feel and sense the trampoline-like, that Dr. Mew talked about.

Wait, what's this? I do this trampolinish thing (visibly) with the tip of my tongue, is that what you are talking about?

And where did Mike Mew talk about it?

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Posted : 05/05/2020 5:56 am
RamonT liked
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