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Ready to buckle down (PICS)

Colette
(@aramisx)
50+ Forum Posts

Hey you guys, 

    I have been reading through your posts all morning and caught a wind of super-inspiration... As some of you may know, I have had regressed from my expansion, gave up on it and sometimes forget about mewing for weeks at a time which is no way to see any progress.

I am going to start from scratch with my expander at night-

Leave it in for several months after maxing the expander (to the healthiest width for me) to cement the progress-

Chew mastiha gum-

Working on my posture (one of the reasons I started ballet recently)-

Building up my capacity to withstand the discomfort of mewing-

And record my progress for inspiration-

I would love everyone's BEST tips!! And when I start measuring MM' like I have seen on here, can I get accurate reads from measuring directly into my mouth molar to molar? I am not working with an orthodontist so I won't be getting molds.

I love this group and I am so thankful for your all's feedback, Progress's moderation and insight,  and TGW's archiving, leadership and curating <3

Attaching pics to show my "starting" point.

IMG 0083
 
IMG 0097
Quote
Topic starter Posted : 20/03/2018 9:11 pm
Meltcel
 Meltcel
(@Meltcel)
Guest

The way I see measuring is that it needs consistency. 

 

I don't have palate measuring tools nor the money for them. Still gonna measure. As long as the mode of measurement stays the same you will know if progress is made.

 

Also, I can't NOT mew now that I am aware of it. I used to rest my tongue on the bottom of my jaw and that makes it sooooo hard to keep my mouth closed. So I decided whether mewing works or not (and it does so far) that I will still keep proper posture for health reasons.

 

I just think of mewing as the equivalent to standing up straight. It may not make me a model but the alternative is to be unhealthy and uglier. Which do you choose?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 21/03/2018 1:14 am
Sclera
(@sclera)
200+ Forum Posts

Hey there!

Here are my tips, based on things I wish I had done early on. It all seems like a lot, but in reality doesn't take up too much time:

Photos - posture and face combined

  • If you're using your phone to take photos, get a cheap tripod and a blutetooth camera remote. Set up a spot and if you have an appropriate setup, put discrete tape on where to put your feet, and where to put the tripod, and also make sure to keep the tripod height and angle as consistent as possible. I just plant the thing at the end of my short hallway, and stand in front of my door (I started with the bathroom door open, so I keep it open now with the light on).
  • Make sure the lighting is consistent. My bathroom has a skylight which really messes with things, so I make sure to take photos at night.
  • Wear tight clothes so you can keep track of your body alignment - and make sure you can see your ankles!
  • Keep hair pulled back so you can see your ears, neck, and base of skull. This will come really important not only for marking progress in posture, but also for seeing the subtle changes all over your body and face and for finding the right photos to compare.
  • Take photos from a distance so the depth of field doesn't mess too much with your face.
  • Take photos straight on, three quarters and profile on both sides, and back
  • Take a TON of photos each set with very slight changes to the head tilt, so when you compare you have a lot of options to choose from (matching nostrils and ears, eyes, etc.) - this prevents me having to put the whole setup back up because I got the head angle wrong.
  • Try not to do it too often. I stick with once a month because I'm lazy, and also because progress photos are just too subtle for me, any more frequently. (I sometimes do very casual selfie comparisons, but the depth of field changes can be deceptive)
  • Don't delete photos! I could kick myself over the times I deleted photos I hated, but realize now would have been useful. You can always move them to a hard drive or something.

Mike Mew also has videos on how to take progress photos, and I need to start doing those, too.

Measurements

I have a really hard time taking measurements in my mouth -- I just don't get anything consistent, so here's what I do:

  • I got a digital caliper and an impression kit on Amazon, and then just measured my bite that way. It's not that messy and I can just toss it when I'm done.
  • BUT I've started making my own impressions, and then casting them roughly to take measurements. In about two weeks I'll have my first true month's progress to compare.
    • One, this really helps in comparing visually in general, but there are so many measurements I wish I had taken with discarded impressions, that I can easily now go back and do.
  • Take as many measurements as you can. You can always discard things that don't matter, but you can't go back in time.

And I guess my big thing is don't get discouraged if you're not seeing progress where you want it. Progress is progress, and an improvement in one area could mean a jump in improvement in another, it was just missing that piece.

It's been a slow slide into correction for me. But the small things really do add up.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 21/03/2018 4:54 am
Greensmoothies
(@greensmoothies)
200+ Forum Posts

Thanks for your input Re: how to take pics, Sclera. I haven't read this entire forum yet and have honestly been scratching my head a bit as to how to take pics and various measurements. I was going to get calipers off amazon last time I ordered off there, then forgot, so good to know I was on the right track. For example, it seems my mid face has shortened, but due to poor documentation, I've no idea for sure. Would be great to have some sort of thread made about how to document our progress.

To OP, please don't be discouraged, looking at your pics some things jumped out at me that were qualities my face used to have, but with mewing, were resolved

Remember this pain... and let it activate you.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 21/03/2018 5:06 am
Colette
(@aramisx)
50+ Forum Posts
Posted by: Meltcel

The way I see measuring is that it needs consistency. 

 

I don't have palate measuring tools nor the money for them. Still gonna measure. As long as the mode of measurement stays the same you will know if progress is made.

 

Also, I can't NOT mew now that I am aware of it. I used to rest my tongue on the bottom of my jaw and that makes it sooooo hard to keep my mouth closed. So I decided whether mewing works or not (and it does so far) that I will still keep proper posture for health reasons.

 

I just think of mewing as the equivalent to standing up straight. It may not make me a model but the alternative is to be unhealthy and uglier. Which do you choose?

That crossed my mind too about the measurements at the very least showing growth, even if they're not perfect. So, at least there's that! I am glad that it is second nature to you! For me, it stops my breathing so I struggle to do it for more than 5 mins, but it is on my mind a lot more!

Thanks for the encouragement.

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 21/03/2018 7:09 pm
Colette
(@aramisx)
50+ Forum Posts

@Sclera 

Thank you so much for the pro-tips on capturing the progress!! The tri-pod is a great idea. Light changes so much in my house where I have skylights as well, I should choose one spot at the same time every day. I am going to save your response for all the tips. 

Digital calipers are a good idea. I can't wait to track the progress. 

Again @Sclera, THANK YOU. Your advice is priceless.

 

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 21/03/2018 7:20 pm
Sclera liked
Colette
(@aramisx)
50+ Forum Posts

 

To OP, please don't be discouraged, looking at your pics some things jumped out at me that were qualities my face used to have, but with mewing, were resolved

Thank you!! Some of those things aren't visible in daily life where I got used to pushing my head out to hide it, but now in order to make change, I have to hold my head correctly. How long did it take you to see changes? What is your routine? Do you have pictures too?

 

 

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 21/03/2018 7:22 pm
Angelina
(@madeira09)
10+ Forum Posts

Hi! My best advice would be to really work on your head posture and be consistent with the exercise you do to fix it. My favourite video is here  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RKyaDmzsnw&t=0s&list=LLE2j9ZyNDv4_aCc8YoXPpXA&index=15   (UCS is actually a forward head posture).  Also consider your sleeping position, here the guy tells everything you need to know about it  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTktJvum7cs.   Secondly, consider OMC (open mouth chewing), and really try to chew with your back molars next to your wisdom teeth, it helps to deactivate muscles around your lips especially anguli oris muscle, i dont know if anyone practice it but i am sure it helps to train the posterior part of tongue because it plays a big part in turning food particles when chewing while muscles around lips stay inactive. I also believe it helps to drive maxilla forward because i have a burning sensation under my eyes right after eating. Dr. Mew's tongue chewing exercise is great in every sense.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 21/03/2018 7:37 pm
Phil343443 and Sclera liked
Colette
(@aramisx)
50+ Forum Posts
Posted by: madeira09

Hi! My best advice would be to really work on your head posture and be consistent with the exercise you do to fix it. My favourite video is here  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RKyaDmzsnw&t=0s&list=LLE2j9ZyNDv4_aCc8YoXPpXA&index=15   (UCS is actually a forward head posture).  Also consider your sleeping position, here the guy tells everything you need to know about it  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTktJvum7cs.   Secondly, consider OMC (open mouth chewing), and really try to chew with your back molars next to your wisdom teeth, it helps to deactivate muscles around your lips especially anguli oris muscle, i dont know if anyone practice it but i am sure it helps to train the posterior part of tongue because it plays a big part in turning food particles when chewing while muscles around lips stay inactive. I also believe it helps to drive maxilla forward because i have a burning sensation under my eyes right after eating. Dr. Mew's tongue chewing exercise is great in every sense.

Thank you, Madeira!!

I have been really wary to start my head posture because it gives me a double chin, but the trade-off for better bone structure is worth it, I know. 

So you do the OMC? Have most of your results come from that and proper head posture?? Did you have an expander?

Thank you for your feedback!

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 21/03/2018 8:04 pm
Angelina
(@madeira09)
10+ Forum Posts
Posted by: Colette
Posted by: madeira09

Hi! My best advice would be to really work on your head posture and be consistent with the exercise you do to fix it. My favourite video is here  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RKyaDmzsnw&t=0s&list=LLE2j9ZyNDv4_aCc8YoXPpXA&index=15   (UCS is actually a forward head posture).  Also consider your sleeping position, here the guy tells everything you need to know about it  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTktJvum7cs.   Secondly, consider OMC (open mouth chewing), and really try to chew with your back molars next to your wisdom teeth, it helps to deactivate muscles around your lips especially anguli oris muscle, i dont know if anyone practice it but i am sure it helps to train the posterior part of tongue because it plays a big part in turning food particles when chewing while muscles around lips stay inactive. I also believe it helps to drive maxilla forward because i have a burning sensation under my eyes right after eating. Dr. Mew's tongue chewing exercise is great in every sense.

Thank you, Madeira!!

I have been really wary to start my head posture because it gives me a double chin, but the trade-off for better bone structure is worth it, I know. 

So you do the OMC? Have most of your results come from that and proper head posture?? Did you have an expander?

Thank you for your feedback!

Yeah, it totally worth it! Yes, i try to always chew with my molars and its a little bit hard to keep mouth closed when doing so, so i can say i do OMC. Yes, im sure we cant get the results we expect until we develop proper posture, all my results come from that and from tongue chewing. I dont do anything else.. maybe i should do something else or work harder but i've got some good results already. I dont use any expanders.. Maybe it would be better if i used it but i cant afford any. My intermolar width is 35 for now.

Keep working hard! Wish you best results! 🙂

ReplyQuote
Posted : 21/03/2018 8:50 pm
Sclera liked
Angelina
(@madeira09)
10+ Forum Posts

I always keep my tongue tip on the spot and the posterior third at the level of back molars as far back as i can pressing it against the palate, although its hard because my palate is still narrow. btw the better your head posture the further back you can place your tongue(this i noticed when lying on the floor without a pillow with my chin tucked, i noted how narrow my palate is 🙂 i know i have a long way to go..) In this position the middle part of the tongue exerts more pressure against the palate in the direction of correction (up and forward).  

ReplyQuote
Posted : 21/03/2018 9:07 pm
Sclera
(@sclera)
200+ Forum Posts

@Colette, if it's any consolation, I've heard and read from different sources that, over time, the double chin goes away once the posture is fixed. I hate it too, but I've experienced such a huge change in breathing and hearing, that it's worth it.

You might find that once your posture is better, you'll have an easier time breathing while mewing. I'm not a great singer and only do it by myself, but I can hit notes now that I never was able to. That alone has made me so happy!

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 21/03/2018 9:14 pm
Angelina liked
Angelina
(@madeira09)
10+ Forum Posts

@sclera oh yeah! you r right! i remember myself having my right nostril clogged for a long time but now i can breath evenly with both

ReplyQuote
Posted : 21/03/2018 9:23 pm
Greensmoothies
(@greensmoothies)
200+ Forum Posts
Posted by: Colette

 

To OP, please don't be discouraged, looking at your pics some things jumped out at me that were qualities my face used to have, but with mewing, were resolved

Thank you!! Some of those things aren't visible in daily life where I got used to pushing my head out to hide it, but now in order to make change, I have to hold my head correctly. How long did it take you to see changes? What is your routine? Do you have pictures too?

 

 

No problem, yeah holding good posture can help a lot, very helpful for mewing, it can be hard but it does eventually get easier. As for me, I'm turning 36 soon and began mewing soon after turning 31. I currently need to take a more recent series of pictures, as well as dental impressions, and fortunately enough I ended up taking a good shot of myself from the front prior to beginning, didn't have the foresight to get my profile or a dental impression, X-rays etc, though. I recall getting a small space between my teeth a few weeks in, which is said to be an indication of expansion with mewing, but it took a few months to clearly be able to see facial change in the mirror. My mewing routine is mainly inspired by a user from break the matrix who recently seems to have migrated over here: I do what he calls "hard mewing" and like him, aim to feel the braces-like discomfort as much as possible. Mackenzie chin tucks help here for increased mewing force throughout the day. His sleeping technique has been important for me, which I do by sleeping in a Mackenzie chin tuck and more recently with no pillow, or just using the edge of the pillow to make the tuck feel "deeper" along with my pony tail, effectively ramming the back of my tongue up all night with tip of tongue resting a bit behind my teeth. I'm guessing it's at least 200g of force all night, maybe more. I also do something I call upside down mewing, basically mewing while bent over 15mins a day, and have tried to do it everyday for the past 4 months. Some of these things might have to be worked up to.

Something I've noticed about mewing, my tongue ability has "evolved" over time from not really able to fit it all on the roof of my mouth, to being able to fit it all easily with tip of tongue resting comfortably where it should and able to apply pressure from tip, sides and back of the tongue. And when I got to that point, mewing became much easier/more second nature.

edit: correction to timeline (underlined above) for archival purposes

Remember this pain... and let it activate you.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 21/03/2018 9:29 pm
Apollo and Angelina liked
Colette
(@aramisx)
50+ Forum Posts

@madeira09 

35 is supposed to be a very formidable width!! Good work, and thank you for the encouragement and videos. I can't wait to practice. I, too, can't afford any orthodontics after this online retainer I had went somewhat faulty ;p Please keep me posted on your progress.

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 22/03/2018 7:59 am
Angelina liked
Colette
(@aramisx)
50+ Forum Posts
Posted by: Sclera

@Colette, if it's any consolation, I've heard and read from different sources that, over time, the double chin goes away once the posture is fixed. I hate it too, but I've experienced such a huge change in breathing and hearing, that it's worth it.

You might find that once your posture is better, you'll have an easier time breathing while mewing. I'm not a great singer and only do it by myself, but I can hit notes now that I never was able to. That alone has made me so happy!

 

Haha, that's so random, but makes perfect sense! I love that. 

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 22/03/2018 8:00 am
Colette
(@aramisx)
50+ Forum Posts
Posted by: Greensmoothies
Posted by: Colette

 

To OP, please don't be discouraged, looking at your pics some things jumped out at me that were qualities my face used to have, but with mewing, were resolved

Thank you!! Some of those things aren't visible in daily life where I got used to pushing my head out to hide it, but now in order to make change, I have to hold my head correctly. How long did it take you to see changes? What is your routine? Do you have pictures too?

 

 

No problem, yeah holding good posture can help a lot, very helpful for mewing, it can be hard but it does eventually get easier. As for me, I'm turning 36 soon and began mewing soon after turning 31. I currently need to take a more recent series of pictures, as well as dental impressions, and fortunately enough I ended up taking a good shot of myself from the front prior to beginning, didn't have the foresight to get my profile or a dental impression, X-rays etc, though. I recall getting a small space between my teeth a few weeks in, which is said to be an indication of expansion with mewing, but it took a few months to clearly be able to see facial change in the mirror. My mewing routine is mainly inspired by a user from break the matrix who recently seems to have migrated over here: I do what he calls "hard mewing" and like him, aim to feel the braces-like discomfort as much as possible. Mackenzie chin tucks help here for increased mewing force throughout the day. His sleeping technique has been important for me, which I do by sleeping in a Mackenzie chin tuck and more recently with no pillow, or just using the edge of the pillow to make the tuck feel "deeper" along with my pony tail, effectively ramming the back of my tongue up all night with tip of tongue resting a bit behind my teeth. I'm guessing it's at least 200g of force all night, maybe more. I also do something I call upside down mewing, basically mewing while bent over 15mins a day, and have tried to do it everyday for the past 6 months. Some of these things might have to be worked up to.

Something I've noticed about mewing, my tongue ability has "evolved" over time from not really able to fit it all on the roof of my mouth, to being able to fit it all easily with tip of tongue resting comfortably where it should and able to apply pressure from tip, sides and back of the tongue. And when I got to that point, mewing became much easier/more second nature.

Ok, I like what I'm hearing here. Is hard mewing simply keeping your tongue suctioned as hard as you can for as long as you can? The bent over mewing sounds intense since it still hurts a bit, but I'd be willing to give it a shot. 

Now, when you decided to sleep with the Miranda tuck, was it hard to fall asleep at first? Did you used to curl up on your side or anything?

You sound like you've got a great routine down. 

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 22/03/2018 8:03 am
krollic
(@krollic)
500+ Forum Posts

hard mewing is just pressing hard. having a lot of suction and little upwards force is very bad since that is actually pulling your maxilla down.

personally I think the idea of upside down mewing is silly. it's very uncomfortable for obvious reasons and I do not believe that 15 minutes is a sufficient length of time for any sort of progress.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 22/03/2018 10:12 am
Greensmoothies
(@greensmoothies)
200+ Forum Posts

Yep, krollic is right re: hard mewing. I'd say it's more of an advanced practice because you can go wrong with the force applied with your teeth touching. You need to find the right balance between force applied with tongue and teeth. Too little force on the teeth (or worse, they're not even touching) and too much force (clenching, basically) are both wrong. At the same time, you need to, well, mew hard. It's a delicate balance, and then I find myself having to relearn what I need to do as I progress.

re: upside down mewing, I advocate it because I began to get more results 3 months in that urged me to continue. I started a thread on it here and welcome feedback. It was difficult at first but got easier with time, and taking breaks during helps. As with all things, if it feels wrong, discontinue the practice.  https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/upside-down-mewing/#post-1041

eta: My apologies for hijacking your thread, Colette, I simply wished to share my personal mewing routine as per request. The "silly" feedback I received from krollic regarding a practice I've engaged with for 4 months was surprisingly hurtful, and perhaps I could benefit from thicker skin, more lurking and what have you, but I just don't know... it felt demoralising, but I won't belabour the point. It brings to mind one mistake I've made while Mewing: poor and inconsistent documentation. I'd probably feel better had I simply been more diligent with documenting my progress. Live and learn...

Still, I think my practice of upside-down mewing may have merit, and I do believe it's hastened my progress. I think the example of Plato's facepulling mask bears mention here, as well as what he has to say about force, "It is the LIGHT force that moves the bones because it convinces your connective tissues to release". Colette, please know that there's a bit of a divide on this forum, with some believing force must be sustained for long periods of time to have worthwhile effect (and this is backed by the scientific literature, of course) then others believe that this much is true, but additionally believe that Plato's mask etc that's applied for a short amount of time can also be effective. And then it's perhaps unclear what results owe to the mask and what results are owed to the appliance he used. I personally fall in to the camp that believes most of what Plato claims.

Remember this pain... and let it activate you.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 22/03/2018 11:13 am
Sclera liked
krollic
(@krollic)
500+ Forum Posts

hey, I didn't mean to be hurtful or cause offense. apologies. I've tried it several times and only get headaches and nausea. I just don't see how from a technical perspective it would offer benefits for such a short period of time per day, that couldn't be achieved with, say, something like hardmewing

ReplyQuote
Posted : 22/03/2018 1:44 pm
Sclera
(@sclera)
200+ Forum Posts

@greensmoothies, I'm not sure I'll be able to mew upside down for any length of time given the headaches I get, but when I did it, I felt a wonderful and consistent pressure with my tongue that I just can't get being upright. It somewhat felt like yoga, in needing to keep place and then reach for that deeper position over time as more and more muscles relax. I don't think the concept is ridiculous, and I'd be very curious about your progress.

I feel your pain about documentation. I made a huge mistake early on by not documenting, thinking that I really didn't have anyone to share with, and that casual progress photos would be enough for me. A lot of that had to do with the forums I was reading, but that I never felt comfortable contributing to. So I had this idea that I wouldn't obsess and that I'd just let things happen and either be pleased with the result or move on, and now I'm catching up on lost time. I've been really excited about this forum, not only for the discussion of information and debate, but also because of the environment, and I hope that continues.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 22/03/2018 8:22 pm
Greensmoothies
(@greensmoothies)
200+ Forum Posts
Posted by: krollic

hey, I didn't mean to be hurtful or cause offense. apologies. I've tried it several times and only get headaches and nausea. I just don't see how from a technical perspective it would offer benefits for such a short period of time per day, that couldn't be achieved with, say, something like hardmewing

That's okay, no worries, maybe something to think about though is that people can invest a lot of emotional and physical energy in to their practices, so to say that something they're doing is silly can come across as an insult, even though I know logically you probably didn't intend that and just wanted to offer a critique in your own way. I must say that I'm a bit surprised that it seems you don't feel more force when mewing while upside down? Regardless, with your second post here that I'm replying to, it's brought to mind a lot of thoughts which I appreciate and will comment on/address in my thread on the topic of upside-down mewing at my next convenience: https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/upside-down-mewing/

Posted by: Sclera

@greensmoothies, I'm not sure I'll be able to mew upside down for any length of time given the headaches I get, but when I did it, I felt a wonderful and consistent pressure with my tongue that I just can't get being upright. It somewhat felt like yoga, in needing to keep place and then reach for that deeper position over time as more and more muscles relax. I don't think the concept is ridiculous, and I'd be very curious about your progress.

I feel your pain about documentation. I made a huge mistake early on by not documenting, thinking that I really didn't have anyone to share with, and that casual progress photos would be enough for me. A lot of that had to do with the forums I was reading, but that I never felt comfortable contributing to. So I had this idea that I wouldn't obsess and that I'd just let things happen and either be pleased with the result or move on, and now I'm catching up on lost time. I've been really excited about this forum, not only for the discussion of information and debate, but also because of the environment, and I hope that continues.

Thanks for your feedback RE: the upside-down mewing practice, it felt reassuring. That said, I get that critique is important and krollic's feedback in his followup post did raise some important questions. Yes, it's basically like yoga; I will post about it more in my thread next chance I get: https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/upside-down-mewing/

Major regrets not documenting more, but live and learn. Having a forum like this certainly is helpful, to bounce ideas off others and to help each other with our progress and provide a source of motivation, get new ideas, things like that. True, there wasn't really much of a community to share and learn from in the past, so I think this forum is important and should gain more prominence. I knew about break the matrix, but it seemed so advanced at the time to me, for some reason. Thinking back, I'm not sure why I thought that, but ah well. As well RE: documentation, I just didn't expect the kind of results I've gotten, so I didn't bother and likewise adopted a "let the chips fall where they may" type approach.

Posted by: Colette
Posted by: Greensmoothies
Posted by: Colette

 

To OP, please don't be discouraged, looking at your pics some things jumped out at me that were qualities my face used to have, but with mewing, were resolved

Thank you!! Some of those things aren't visible in daily life where I got used to pushing my head out to hide it, but now in order to make change, I have to hold my head correctly. How long did it take you to see changes? What is your routine? Do you have pictures too?

 

 

No problem, yeah holding good posture can help a lot, very helpful for mewing, it can be hard but it does eventually get easier. As for me, I'm turning 36 soon and began mewing soon after turning 31. I currently need to take a more recent series of pictures, as well as dental impressions, and fortunately enough I ended up taking a good shot of myself from the front prior to beginning, didn't have the foresight to get my profile or a dental impression, X-rays etc, though. I recall getting a small space between my teeth a few weeks in, which is said to be an indication of expansion with mewing, but it took a few months to clearly be able to see facial change in the mirror. My mewing routine is mainly inspired by a user from break the matrix who recently seems to have migrated over here: I do what he calls "hard mewing" and like him, aim to feel the braces-like discomfort as much as possible. Mackenzie chin tucks help here for increased mewing force throughout the day. His sleeping technique has been important for me, which I do by sleeping in a Mackenzie chin tuck and more recently with no pillow, or just using the edge of the pillow to make the tuck feel "deeper" along with my pony tail, effectively ramming the back of my tongue up all night with tip of tongue resting a bit behind my teeth. I'm guessing it's at least 200g of force all night, maybe more. I also do something I call upside down mewing, basically mewing while bent over 15mins a day, and have tried to do it everyday for the past 6 months. Some of these things might have to be worked up to.

Something I've noticed about mewing, my tongue ability has "evolved" over time from not really able to fit it all on the roof of my mouth, to being able to fit it all easily with tip of tongue resting comfortably where it should and able to apply pressure from tip, sides and back of the tongue. And when I got to that point, mewing became much easier/more second nature.

Ok, I like what I'm hearing here. Is hard mewing simply keeping your tongue suctioned as hard as you can for as long as you can? The bent over mewing sounds intense since it still hurts a bit, but I'd be willing to give it a shot. 

Now, when you decided to sleep with the Miranda tuck, was it hard to fall asleep at first? Did you used to curl up on your side or anything?

You sound like you've got a great routine down. 

Neglected to respond to this earlier, but it brings to mind a lot of thoughts.

I wouldn't say that I've reached hard mewing perfection yet, nor is my sleeping routine perfect, not by a long shot. I do occasionally just not sleep in a Mackenzie chin tuck in supine position, and instead sleep on my side while trying to mew, maybe with a pillow or not. My position on this is that this sleeping method isn't exactly comfortable for me at this time, and I'm not willing to lose sleep over it, so I just try my best to gradually get better at being consistent. My belief is that practice will eventually make perfect. That's where I'm at currently with that practice. Magnesium supplementation seems to help induce sleep at night, and I believe that taking a bit of blackstrap molasses before sleeping is helping with feeling rested in the morning. I'm somewhat new to the nopillow thing and revert back to pillow use on occasion as well. But I believe I'll get better at these things with time and I have, however, managed to make Mewing (to be precise, just the standard Mewing practice of a normal/regular amount of force on the roof of the mouth) second nature, as in it requires no thought to do, whereas in the past my tongue was on the bottom of the roof of my mouth with no thought. I do believe that no matter what, I'm going to be able to mew for the rest of my life, and currently with physical and mental effort, I can hard mew. But it took some time to get to that point, several months at least.

As for hard mewing, I'm not totally sure if it'll ever become second nature because it's, well, kind of hard. The mild discomfort feeling doesn't bother me, it's more like the physical energy it requires and the emotional energy invested in having these Mewing-related stream-of-consciousness thoughts that seem necessary for me to have to be able to mew hard correctly, chew certain ways and have good posture. I guess this is perhaps at least partly why Mew says that Mewing is difficult and recommends professional assistance to help get results. It can be emotionally and physically taxing, and it's only natural to want to "revert back" so to speak and carry on with the effortless but incorrect tongue, head and body posture.

But there is hope, it really does get easier. I have forward head posture and it's getting easier to hold proper posture, and it's not even so much holding it anymore, my posture has actually corrected significantly over time. Not perfect yet, but getting closer to it. So I think this highlights one of the major goals of mewing, which is to make the practice and related modalities (chewing, sleep-related methods etc) second nature, so no thought is required. And I think this might be where some can get discouraged from time to time, the amount of physical and mental labour involved can be daunting and even draining.

Something that's helped me when I feel discouraged is recalling a quote by the guy from Break the Matrix who inspired me with the hard mewing and Mackenzie chin tuck while sleeping practices. To paraphrase, he wrote that you have to really want it. I've reflected on this many times and it's helping me continue, as is seeing results. Anyway, I hope that writing about my experience with Mewing has been a helpful read.

Remember this pain... and let it activate you.

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Posted : 22/03/2018 11:24 pm
Colette
(@aramisx)
50+ Forum Posts
Posted by: Greensmoothies

Yep, krollic is right re: hard mewing. I'd say it's more of an advanced practice because you can go wrong with the force applied with your teeth touching. You need to find the right balance between force applied with tongue and teeth. Too little force on the teeth (or worse, they're not even touching) and too much force (clenching, basically) are both wrong. At the same time, you need to, well, mew hard. It's a delicate balance, and then I find myself having to relearn what I need to do as I progress.

re: upside down mewing, I advocate it because I began to get more results 3 months in that urged me to continue. I started a thread on it here and welcome feedback. It was difficult at first but got easier with time, and taking breaks during helps. As with all things, if it feels wrong, discontinue the practice.  https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/upside-down-mewing/#post-1041

eta: My apologies for hijacking your thread, Colette, I simply wished to share my personal mewing routine as per request. The "silly" feedback I received from krollic regarding a practice I've engaged with for 4 months was surprisingly hurtful, and perhaps I could benefit from thicker skin, more lurking and what have you, but I just don't know... it felt demoralising, but I won't belabour the point. It brings to mind one mistake I've made while Mewing: poor and inconsistent documentation. I'd probably feel better had I simply been more diligent with documenting my progress. Live and learn...

Still, I think my practice of upside-down mewing may have merit, and I do believe it's hastened my progress. I think the example of Plato's facepulling mask bears mention here, as well as what he has to say about force, "It is the LIGHT force that moves the bones because it convinces your connective tissues to release". Colette, please know that there's a bit of a divide on this forum, with some believing force must be sustained for long periods of time to have worthwhile effect (and this is backed by the scientific literature, of course) then others believe that this much is true, but additionally believe that Plato's mask etc that's applied for a short amount of time can also be effective. And then it's perhaps unclear what results owe to the mask and what results are owed to the appliance he used. I personally fall in to the camp that believes most of what Plato claims.

Greensmoothes, I appreciate your diligent response. I do not feel like you high-jacked my post, you gracefully held your opinion!

I must not be doing enough research because I did not know about the delicate balance or the suction pulling down without force. In my own experience, I try to push up with my teeth barely touching and unless I am suctioning there is no way the back of my tongue will make it to the posterior, I wonder if that comes naturally over time!  I also haven't even heard of the Plato aspect, so I have a lot of work to do. 

I am eager to read about upside down mewing, and I am glad you have had progress with it! It's funny, we all have different areas to work on, though we are all pretty much advocating the same thing! Truly, thank you for your earnest responses and honesty. 

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Topic starter Posted : 23/03/2018 12:30 am
Colette
(@aramisx)
50+ Forum Posts
Posted by: krollic

hard mewing is just pressing hard. having a lot of suction and little upwards force is very bad since that is actually pulling your maxilla down.

personally I think the idea of upside down mewing is silly. it's very uncomfortable for obvious reasons and I do not believe that 15 minutes is a sufficient length of time for any sort of progress.

Hey Krollic, 

This is a wake-up call for me, I have to suction to keep my tongue up in the back of my mouth even if I am not pushing. I also have never mewed for over 15 minutes at a time, in its simplest form I get a headache and drainage. Where did you begin? Did you start with over 15 or work up to it??

So tell me what exactly a "hard mewing" routine looks like for you, if you please. 

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Topic starter Posted : 23/03/2018 12:34 am
Allixa
(@allixa)
200+ Forum Posts

Are you experimenting with diet/supplements at all?

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Posted : 23/03/2018 1:31 am
Apollo
(@apollo)
500+ Forum Posts
Posted by: Greensmoothies
it's brought to mind a lot of thoughts which I appreciate and will comment on/address in my thread on the topic of upside-down mewing at my next convenience: https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/upside-down-mewing/

I'm definitely looking forward to reading more about your inverted mewing technique! I've been too busy to do any more than a few short, informal sessions, but I like the way it feels. I don't own a yoga swing, inversion boots, or inversion table, and I wish I had better upper body strength to maintain a downward dog or handstand position.

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Posted : 23/03/2018 3:05 am
krollic
(@krollic)
500+ Forum Posts

@Colette

This is a wake-up call for me, I have to suction to keep my tongue up in the back of my mouth even if I am not pushing. I also have never mewed for over 15 minutes at a time, in its simplest form I get a headache and drainage. Where did you begin? Did you start with over 15 or work up to it??

So tell me what exactly a "hard mewing" routine looks like for you, if you please. 

I'll be frank, your tongue muscles are likely very weak/undeveloped and probably the jaw also since mewing forces it apart when you hard mew. The good news is that it's one of the fastest adapting muscles and it can be very strong very quickly. In your case I would strongly recommend buying a fairly large amount of chewing gum (even over-the-counter stuff) and practice fatiguing your jaw and tongue with various exercises.

Large Bolus Chewing/Introduction 1 By Dr Mike Mew

Large Bolus Chewing 'Circles' By Dr Mike Mew

Tongue Chewing By Dr Mike Mew

Large Bolus Chewing 'Golf Ball' By Dr Mike Mew

Here are some videos for you to chew on    🤢   🤮 

Setting goals is a good idea. I would recommend you do this sort of stuff until you can consciously mew all waking day without getting tired and then focus on hard mewing and unconscious day mewing and then worry about night mewing which is really hard.

 

 

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Posted : 23/03/2018 9:20 am
krollic
(@krollic)
500+ Forum Posts

@Colette

This is a wake-up call for me, I have to suction to keep my tongue up in the back of my mouth even if I am not pushing. I also have never mewed for over 15 minutes at a time, in its simplest form I get a headache and drainage. Where did you begin? Did you start with over 15 or work up to it??

So tell me what exactly a "hard mewing" routine looks like for you, if you please. 

I hard mew all day unconsciously now or at least it's a fairly large amount of force. I can feel/hear the blood pressure in my tongue when I do it for instance. I like it a lot and it's easier to notice when if I've stopped doing it.

I'll be frank, your tongue muscles are likely very weak/undeveloped and probably the jaw muscles also since mewing forces it apart when you hard mew. The good news is that it's one of the fastest adapting muscles and it can be very strong very quickly. In your case I would strongly recommend buying a fairly large amount of chewing gum (even over-the-counter stuff) and practice fatiguing your jaw and tongue with various exercises.

Large Bolus Chewing/Introduction 1 By Dr Mike Mew

Large Bolus Chewing 'Circles' By Dr Mike Mew

Tongue Chewing By Dr Mike Mew

Large Bolus Chewing 'Golf Ball' By Dr Mike Mew

Here are some videos for you to chew on 🤢 🤮 

Setting goals is a good idea. I would recommend you do this sort of stuff until you can consciously mew all waking day without getting tired and then focus on hard mewing and unconscious day mewing and then worry about night mewing which is really hard. I think you'll be surprised how easy the first step is once your tongue becomes stronger. You're not gonna get good results with just 15 minutes or even several hours a day. You really need to aim for being able to mew all the time when you're awake.

 

 

 

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Posted : 23/03/2018 9:28 am
Colette liked

THE GREAT WORK