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Progress of Progress (Updated 1/2019)  

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dm222
Trusted Member
Posted by: noises

That's interesting. I thought we had the same pattern of CFD but it seems that my maxilla is sunken whereas yours is "tipped over". My midface is protruding with slight CW rotation and our nasolabial angles appear to be changing in opposite ways. I wonder what the reason for this is, pretty sure it isn't that you used to have a posterior-only tongue posture...

Are you just continuously jutting your jaw forward? Have you thought of doing something like stretching a resistance band against the chin and doing reps?

probably because his anterior tongue posture was against the incisors.

 

Posted by: Progress

 

your posture is much better in the second pic, and you dont look more recessed in the second so I think you had some progress there.

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Posted : 06/05/2019 3:35 pm
Progress
Member Moderator
Posted by: noises

That's interesting. I thought we had the same pattern of CFD but it seems that my maxilla is sunken whereas yours is "tipped over". My midface is protruding with slight CW rotation and our nasolabial angles appear to be changing in opposite ways. I wonder what the reason for this is, pretty sure it isn't that you used to have a posterior-only tongue posture...

Yeah, it seems that every case is so unique that it's hard to predict the exact ways someone's face is going to change. I have spent a lot of time trying to create some kind of mental "theory of everything" that could be used to explain the nature of anyone's CFD, but there are so many variables that I don't know how feasible it is. 

As a child I wore retractive headgear that pulled my maxilla back by the molars. Earlier in this journey I used to wonder what was the purpose of such appliance, but in the light of the recent pics it looks like my orthodontists were not completely misguided in their approach.

Are you just continuously jutting your jaw forward? Have you thought of doing something like stretching a resistance band against the chin and doing reps?

I have thought about that, but since all muscles work in opposite pairs, I think it's better to learn to develop a natural, balanced tension within the jaw/tongue musculature instead of forcefully exercising one particular muscle. At the moment, it feels like the jutting and the tongue posture complement and stabilize each other (so to answer your question, yes I'm jutting most of the time). This dynamic should ensure that the pterygoids will, over time, develop as they are meant to. I was also in brief contact with another person who claimed that once he began jutting his jaw out due to insecurity, his whole mandible reshaped itself in positive way in just a couple of months. One thing I have noticed is that while jutting, the lower lip rests against the lower incisors, which has been causing a little soreness in the teeth. I suspect that this may tip the incisors inwards over time, increasing chin projection.

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Posted : 07/05/2019 10:10 am
noises
Eminent Member
Posted by: dm222

probably because his anterior tongue posture was against the incisors

Wouldn't that cause bimaxillary protrusion?

Timothee Chalamet seems to have this pattern of recession too. I wonder if it's because the backwards-tilting neurocranium in cohesion with gravity somehow levers the midface outwards.

EDIT: Now I'm realizing that this pattern is everywhere and might even be the standard. Maybe it has more to do with the downswinging jaws creating a CW rotation of the entire lower two thirds. It just seems strange that sometimes the midface has the complete opposite reaction.

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Posted : 08/05/2019 2:11 pm
Progress
Member Moderator
Posted by: noises
Posted by: dm222

probably because his anterior tongue posture was against the incisors

EDIT: Now I'm realizing that this pattern is everywhere and might even be the standard. Maybe it has more to do with the downswinging jaws creating a CW rotation of the entire lower two thirds. It just seems strange that sometimes the midface has the complete opposite reaction.

That's possible. Another possibility is that in head forward posture, without the support of the tongue, the frontal bone begins to collapse inward, causing the sphenoid to squeeze the mid-face outward. In the gif you can see that as the nose moves backward, the forehead comes forward.

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Posted : 08/05/2019 6:34 pm
mewer113
Active Member

Have your wisdom teeth started to peep through from mewing?. im noticing way more space in my mouth compared to when I began my journey back in September 2017, im seeing the front 2 cusps of my mandibular wisdoms coming in

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Posted : 08/05/2019 7:23 pm
noises
Eminent Member

@Progress

Do you think this is a matter of late vs. early onset CFD, as in existing structure collapsing vs. misguided growth? I think in the latter case the maxilla is more prone to retrude. Have you examined your childhood pics?

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Posted : 09/05/2019 5:54 am
Progress
Member Moderator

@mewer113 None have erupted yet.

@noises That's a a good question. I don't know, but I'm willing to bet that there is a difference between the two.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/05/2019 6:29 am
Pame
 Pame
Trusted Member
Posted by: Progress

@greekgodbrody It's been a very uneven journey. I achieved the majority of the expansion last year, coinciding with the period during which I started taking postural work more seriously.

Could you elaborate on what you did in terms of body work? Also, what improvements have you noticed to your sleep? Seeing as you have expanded quite a bit.

 
ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/05/2019 7:32 am
Progress
Member Moderator
Posted by: Pame
Posted by: Progress

@greekgodbrody It's been a very uneven journey. I achieved the majority of the expansion last year, coinciding with the period during which I started taking postural work more seriously.

Could you elaborate on what you did in terms of body work? Also, what improvements have you noticed to your sleep? Seeing as you have expanded quite a bit.

 

This is difficult to talk about and may sound like nonsense, but instead of following a specific routine, I have been determined to learn to listen the subtle postural preferences of my own nervous system. I guess it could be described as some kind of self-tailored, ever-changing fusion of yoga, taichi, calisthenics and martial arts. I have learned that when I focus on my body, the nervous system gives these subtle urges to bend my body in a specific way.  I kind of ask my body "where do you want to go?", then I try to allow my bodily intuition to answer this question without thinking rationally about it. It's more like feeling your way into better posture than analyzing (although the latter also has its own valuable role in the grand scheme of things).

I would end up with improvised movements that may look something like rotating my torso like a corkscrew in a semi-squatting position while simultaneously reaching as far as I can into a specific direction with my hands. It's all about generating physical tension that travels throughout your body from toes to fingers and then striving to extend this tension even further, until you are both tensing and stretching the whole musculature at the same time. Think of how a little child would familiarize himself with the limits of his physical body. That is essentially what you are trying to do: discovering new territories in your range of motion.

Breathing has also been a big part of the process. I have practiced using the whole body to support the drawing in of an inhale and the squeezing out of an exhale, searching for the absolute physical maximum into which these two opposite movements can be taken to.

No noticeable changes in quality of sleep.

 
ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/05/2019 8:10 am
noises liked
Achilles1
Trusted Member

This is some fantastic progress Progress! Lookin' like a strong healthy dude now.

So, I am of the opinion that the posterior part of the tongue modifies the position of the sphenoid and zygomatic process, whereas the the tongue tip operates as the vehicle for anterior rotation. In my own experience, I have gotten very wide in the front of my palate, which has unlocked my lower jaw enough to grow in 1/2 of my bottom wisdom teeth. I believe this has happened thanks to the frontal expansion allowing for a sagittal "swing". 

Have you noticed anything similar in your experience while achieving CCW rotation? In other words, have you noticed whether the posterior acts as a "compressor" and the anterior acts as a "rotator"? This might be common knowledge, but I have not seen this mentioned yet...

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Posted : 09/05/2019 8:57 am
Progress
Member Moderator
Posted by: Achilles1

This is some fantastic progress Progress! Lookin' like a strong healthy dude now.

So, I am of the opinion that the posterior part of the tongue modifies the position of the sphenoid and zygomatic process, whereas the the tongue tip operates as the vehicle for anterior rotation. In my own experience, I have gotten very wide in the front of my palate, which has unlocked my lower jaw enough to grow in 1/2 of my bottom wisdom teeth. I believe this has happened thanks to the frontal expansion allowing for a sagittal "swing". 

Have you noticed anything similar in your experience while achieving CCW rotation? In other words, have you noticed whether the posterior acts as a "compressor" and the anterior acts as a "rotator"? This might be common knowledge, but I have not seen this mentioned yet...

Thanks Achilles. That's how I see it too. If we think of sphenoid as the center of an imaginary circle, then the anterior palate has the highest radius in relation to it, which means that it's a spot which provides the strongest leverage in terms of achieving maxillary CCW rotation. It seems that posturally I benefit more from favouring the anterior palate than the posterior palate. I think that eventually the palate will rotate so that even forces will be applied naturally by the whole tongue.

 
ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/05/2019 9:37 am
Achilles1 liked
Slinky
Trusted Member

what's your IMW now? Mine has not changed for over a year now 🙁

ReplyQuote
Posted : 18/05/2019 11:21 am
dm222
Trusted Member

IMW is overrated in my opinion. I have a big IMW and still long face and recessed chin

ReplyQuote
Posted : 18/05/2019 12:52 pm
Progress
Member Moderator
Posted by: Slinky

what's your IMW now? Mine has not changed for over a year now 🙁

I have been plateauing for a while now too, been at 43-44mm since the beginning of the year. I have fairly good idea of how to continue expanding further though, I just want to improve my symmetry first because the asymmetric expansion I was achieving was beginning to make my posture unstable. In my experience, you just have to ram the tongue against the molars and premolars. If the tongue is not touching the teeth, or at least the very ends of the alveoral ridge, not much expansion can be expected. Consider how expander appliances are anchored directly to the teeth. If you want to use the tongue as an organic expander, you have to make it act in similar manner.

 
ReplyQuote
Posted : 18/05/2019 1:19 pm
Odys liked
Mangas77
Eminent Member

Do you imply your tongue is big enough to reach these teeth while mewing ? It is absolutely impossible for me, even though I can push my tongue against the very back of my palate.

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Posted : 18/05/2019 2:56 pm
dm222
Trusted Member

when you say your chin didnt change, you mean that the jaw didnt move forward? or that the format of the chin is the same?

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Posted : 18/05/2019 6:03 pm
ohwhatthehell
Eminent Member

It would be cool if you'd do a clean-shaven comparison picture for your next update.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 07/06/2019 10:14 pm
skinnyboiii
Active Member

@Progress, your forward head posture improved wonderfully. I'm wondering if you can go into more detail about how much of this happened passively (due to the change in tongue posture) and how much of it happened actively. Thanks.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/06/2019 8:36 pm
Progress
Member Moderator
Posted by: ohwhatthehell

It would be cool if you'd do a clean-shaven comparison picture for your next update.

Since there have been several requests for this, will do.

 

Posted by: skinnyboiii

@Progress, your forward head posture improved wonderfully. I'm wondering if you can go into more detail about how much of this happened passively (due to the change in tongue posture) and how much of it happened actively. Thanks.

I have been actively fighting for it. I constantly stretch the highest point of the neck that I can, until I feel a stretch in the beginning of my scalp.  There does not seem to be a clear border between the muscles of the posterior neck and the galea, because both are part of the same fascia (which also connects the heels to the cranium via the hamstrings, hips and the back). Even if your neck looks straight, there is still lots of room for lengthening at the sub-occipital region, which in turn enables further chin tucking etc. In my current view it's this constant stretching and tucking by harnessing the leverage of the posterior tongue that will straighten out the cranial base, rotate the neurocranium forward and ultimately lead to the desirable aesthetic change.

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Posted : 14/06/2019 9:34 am
RamonT liked
skinnyboiii
Active Member

From your latest update I made an animation to get a clearer sense of your changes. All I did was remove the background and make the transition a little slower. What you see is consistent with what you previously mentioned regarding the forehead, nose, and jaw. Very interesting.

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Posted : 25/06/2019 7:50 am
Odys liked
ohwhatthehell
Eminent Member

I'm really curious to see progress pictures of you without the beard.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 25/06/2019 1:19 pm
Mangas77 liked
Elwynn
Active Member

@Progress, I have a couple questions, if you don't mind:

 

1. Which of the changes that you have achieved thus far have convinced you that mewing was effective for you?

2. Do you have any theories as to why your mew indicator line has remained the same while your facial structure (seems to have) changed?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 03/07/2019 6:55 pm
dm222
Trusted Member

@Progress

 

 

Will he have new progress pics?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 12/08/2019 8:00 am
mateogon
New Member
Posted by: @progress

I meant that I was not officially diagnosed. I self-diagnosed myself, which is why the original degree of curvature remains unknown. Yes, C shape it is then.

@progress Did you fix the problem? How did you do it?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 05/09/2019 12:03 am
Rockyp33
Reputable Member

Recently i did some neck stretches back ward and to the left and to the right and i noticed a good difference. I have decent head posture but there is SO MUCH tightness back there which made we realize that i cant mew to full potential if the muscles are imbalance so id heavily reccomend just tilting your head back even for one minute and focus on relaxing your traps and neck and youll notice a good difference! also if you sleep quality is lacking or have apnea check out soundly in the app store

ReplyQuote
Posted : 05/09/2019 11:12 pm
RamonT
Eminent Member
Posted by: @progress
Posted by: Pame
Posted by: Progress

@greekgodbrody It's been a very uneven journey. I achieved the majority of the expansion last year, coinciding with the period during which I started taking postural work more seriously.

Could you elaborate on what you did in terms of body work? Also, what improvements have you noticed to your sleep? Seeing as you have expanded quite a bit.

 

This is difficult to talk about and may sound like nonsense, but instead of following a specific routine, I have been determined to learn to listen the subtle postural preferences of my own nervous system. I guess it could be described as some kind of self-tailored, ever-changing fusion of yoga, taichi, calisthenics and martial arts. I have learned that when I focus on my body, the nervous system gives these subtle urges to bend my body in a specific way.  I kind of ask my body "where do you want to go?", then I try to allow my bodily intuition to answer this question without thinking rationally about it. It's more like feeling your way into better posture than analyzing (although the latter also has its own valuable role in the grand scheme of things).

I would end up with improvised movements that may look something like rotating my torso like a corkscrew in a semi-squatting position while simultaneously reaching as far as I can into a specific direction with my hands. It's all about generating physical tension that travels throughout your body from toes to fingers and then striving to extend this tension even further, until you are both tensing and stretching the whole musculature at the same time. Think of how a little child would familiarize himself with the limits of his physical body. That is essentially what you are trying to do: discovering new territories in your range of motion.

Breathing has also been a big part of the process. I have practiced using the whole body to support the drawing in of an inhale and the squeezing out of an exhale, searching for the absolute physical maximum into which these two opposite movements can be taken to.

No noticeable changes in quality of sleep.

 

Man,

I relate so much to the stuff you're doing, I have been doing all the stuff you mentioned above for years and now i mew and put them all together, IMHO is really the way to go to see total result.

P.S. I have come up with a bunch of weird stretches and exercises, in some of them i use resistance bands, I hope one day i am brave enough to post some of them... they are weird but effective=_=

ReplyQuote
Posted : 06/09/2019 8:58 pm
PolHolmes
Active Member

@progress

"If the tongue is not touching the teeth, or at least the very ends of the alveoral ridge, not much expansion can be expected. Consider how expander appliances are anchored directly to the teeth. If you want to use the tongue as an organic expander, you have to make it act in similar manner."

Therefore do you believe that pushing laterally with your tongue may be more important that pushing up and back? Do you think that upswing is achieved directly by having a larger IMW? Been mewing for the better part of 8 months and my IMW hasn't changed all that much, perhaps I should really direct the force of my tongue laterally and see if it helps.

 
ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/09/2019 10:10 am
Rockyp33
Reputable Member

@polholmes

I agree for the most part. We all have a slightly different natural tongue possture and we find that through proper swallowing and proper body and neck posture. all we have to do is find that spot for us then apply more force. I think a lot of people find that spot but then change it becuas they hear tongue touching the teeth is bad. That could just mean your tongue needs more room!! so let it place naturally then apply force

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Posted : 10/09/2019 10:45 pm
dm222
Trusted Member

Hi,

did you gave up on mewing?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 21/10/2019 4:17 pm
Progress
Member Moderator
Posted by: @dm222

Hi,

did you gave up on mewing?

Still here. I'll post an update when there is something worth sharing.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 24/10/2019 6:45 am
mscottxy
Active Member

is it possible your skull is economising on bone mass, where as your palate widens it also shortens? It looks like your jaw are retracting. In other words you're not developing any new bone, but are just spreading the existing tissue elsewhere.

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Posted : 25/11/2019 8:09 pm
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