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My Story: An Interesting Case Discussion?

Good evening, all.

 

To commemorate my first post on this forum, I decided that I'd like to share my experience with orthotropics and postural training.

 

 

I should start off by stating that I was raised in an environment which many on this forum would consider close to "ideal": upper-middle class family with access to superb orthodontic treatment, sufficient funds to provide a broad variety of healthy foods, an isolated property where I spent a decent portion of my youth outdoors, and parents who were physically active and thus fostered my own interest in an active lifestyle. I was, however, given up for adoption soon after birth, and was subsequently never breastfed.

 

As an infant, I was very quiet; family and strangers alike would remark how little sound I made, and I only threw a tantrum once or twice. I did, however, experience a multitude of airway-related issues; namely, tonsillitis (I suspect my deprivation of breast milk is the culprit). My throat was swollen shut, and I was thus relegated to breathing through my mouth, which we all know is harmful to an individual. Thankfully, this issue was taken care of before I began kindergarten—the poor habits, however, had already set in. My baby teeth erupted and were misaligned, which my parents wisely deemed a warning, and I was taken in for a consultation with an orthodontist. By the age of eight, I was wearing a palatal expander (my orthodontist believes in "expansion" rather than "extraction"), and was soon fitted with orthodontic train tracks.

 

I don't remember much of my life around that time, but I can certainly say that I never subsisted on what many would consider a "hard" diet; instead, I consumed a healthy balance of foods of varying degrees of toughness. At some point in elementary school, I began to breathe through my nose, although I'm absolutely sure that my tongue wasn't resting entirely on my upper palate. I continued on through the years, which were quite uneventful (disregarding my third treatment with orthodontics), and developed a decent face—a visible jawline, balanced features; by no means was I deformed, or ever treated as a second-class citizen due to my appearance. All four of my wisdom teeth were removed at the age of eighteen, and a week following treatment I stumbled across Orthotropics.

 

I am now twenty years old. My face hasn't "collapsed" since the removal of my wisdom teeth, and I have decent occlusion (minor mandibular occlusal cant; hardly noticeable in motion, and I haven't experienced any dental or facial pain). In fact, I suspect my face has improved since familiarizing myself with the tropic premise—others have noted an increase in facial attractiveness over the years. This past February, a relative assisted me in measuring my indicator value. The distance between my nasal tip and central incisal edge measures in at 39 millimeters, which falls directly in the middle for ideal male values (the male ideal is defined as 38 to 40 millimeters). I have been told by many who observe my sleeping that I do not snore, as I predominantly sleep on my side with my head tucked into my chest. I do, however, snore when I sleep on my back, which I believe is due to poor muscle tone of the tongue. I have perfect posture—I feel confident that I stand out from other men, as most have adopted a "contorted" arrangement. When I measured my intermolar width a few weeks ago, I came out at 40 millimeters, although this measurement may be off.

 

 

Please share any thoughts or questions you may have in regards to my experience. I do have one question for you: is skeletal expansion of the maxilla and mandible achievable in adulthood through the proper function of the tongue? I am improving my muscle tone in the hopes of gaining skeletal expansion (I've already noticed the broadening of my maxillary arch), as I'd like to attain the paleolithic intermolar width of 50 millimeters. However, I am open to the consideration of various treatments, such as the maxillary skeletal expander. I do not seek to displace my maxilla and mandible upwards and forwards, as I already possess ideal dimensions—I believe transverse skeletal expansion is easier to achieve than the entire displacement of the craniofacial complex.

 

For those who prefer a visual aid, see the attached image. Although I am an adult male, my face is similar in the width and proportions of the woman. Notice that although she possesses excellent form and occlusion, she too could benefit from skeletal expansion.

 

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Topic starter Posted : 03/11/2019 7:44 pm
LizzyBennet
Active Member

If your width and proportions are like the woman in the photo I don't think you need to do anything?? Her bite, palatal width, facial proportions, etc. are literally ideal, just like the caption says. You even said your posture is perfect. I really don't think you need to be paleolithic..! You are very lucky and should enjoy what you have in my opinion, and I mean this in the most positive way possible 🙂

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Posted : 04/11/2019 9:42 am
20_year_old_mewing
Active Member

I do not mean to sound like a [Rude Language or Insults are not tolerated], but I feel like i'm not as attracted to her as I should be, if her face was "perfect"

Her maxilla is not ideal (right photo) and her face is a little too masculine imo

ReplyQuote
Posted : 04/11/2019 7:47 pm
LizzyBennet
Active Member

Having ideal bite, proper forward growth, etc. does not equal attractive, just like many people can lack these 'ideal' characteristics and still be attractive. You can reach your genetic potential by doing everything right but still not be amazingly beautiful because your genetic potential just happens to be a certain way. Not everyone has the genetic potential to be a 10/10. This woman would be a whole lot uglier if she had a melting, droopy face. 

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Posted : 04/11/2019 8:33 pm
Posted by: @20_year_old_mewing

I do not mean to sound like a [Rude Language or Insults are not tolerated], but I feel like i'm not as attracted to her as I should be, if her face was "perfect"

Her maxilla is not ideal (right photo) and her face is a little too masculine imo

I completely understand this sentiment. She's pretty, but I personally don't find her anything to write home about. Regardless, she is an individual who seems to have almost developed to her genetic potential (with the exception of her palatal width), and that is quite enviable given the times we live in. She is, by no stretch of the imagination, unattractive. I think she'd clean up well.

 

@LizzyBennet 

 

In terms of facial beauty, I am in the same boat as this woman. I'm certainly not unattractive, but I'm nothing to write home about. I most definitely could benefit from a broader facial complex and increased nasal volume. Still, I recognize that I am incredibly fortunate to have what I have. It's insane to think that my life could've been entirely different had I been treated by an orthodontist in favor of extraction, rather than expansion. Quite frightening, actually.

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Topic starter Posted : 04/11/2019 8:58 pm
20_year_old_mewing
Active Member

@lizzybennet

I'm not buying it. If she was near perfect growth I would be more attracted to her. She looks too masculine.

Also note here head is tilting up.

Would not be surprised if she consumed a lot of meat, milk, eggs and/or heavy amouts of strength/ weight bearing activities

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Posted : 04/11/2019 11:02 pm
Posted by: @20_year_old_mewing

@lizzybennet

I'm not buying it. If she was near perfect growth I would be more attracted to her. She looks too masculine.

Also note here head is tilting up.

Would not be surprised if she consumed a lot of meat, milk, eggs and/or heavy amouts of strength/ weight bearing activities

I disagree with you on a number of your assertions. Here me out.

 

 

1. This is absolutely not the case. Proper facial development does not, by any means, guarantee beauty. For instance, there's the classic example of Gisele Bündchen; her facial development most certainly matches with the Paleolithic ideal, yet she is considered unattractive by many men, as she has a very intimidating and intense face which is strictly due to the combination of bone development and soft tissue features. If you need more visual examples of unattractive, well-formed individuals I implore you to study the various photographs Weston Price took on his journeys across the world's most isolated communities.

 

2. Yes, her head is tilted upwards. This is only to exacerbate her facial structure, which seems to be buried under an appreciable layer of buccal fat. Please note, however, that the camera has captured her image from below (on a low angle shot), which has the ability to trick the audience into thinking that the subject is somehow angled unnaturally. Trust me, her head isn't tilted up as much as you believe it to be.

 

3. All healthy individuals consumed large quantities of meat, milk, and eggs, as well as received adequate amounts of exercise in their youth—I know I did. I use to drink a gallon of milk over the course of two days; my parents eventually had to resort to rationing, as they were spending too much money on milk. 

One can reap even more benefits if these foods are either raw or from wholesome, organic sources (à la farm to table).

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : 05/11/2019 12:13 am
20_year_old_mewing
Active Member

@mrkarenmulder

1. She's a mixed bag. Thats why people think shes ugly. Under eye support is lacking and maxilla is not ideally rotated, cheekbones are too prominent which creates large facial angles, so facial harmony is lacking. Mandible would ideally be wider I think.

Face may be a little long and she has something masculine going on, especially the lines going from her cheeks to her chin.

Her face lacks balance even though certain areas are more developed than most people. Facial harmony is THE most important thing. Ugly people lack facial harmony.

Both these girls are NOT ideally developed but most importantly they lack balance. Which creates the masculine look in some areas.

As for diet, the idea that animal products have a healthy place in any part of our diet is absolutely retarted. Every single pro animal product argument is routinely debunked 24/7 by brave online vegans. A conversation with an omni could be compared to taking out the trash every morning.

 

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 05/11/2019 7:22 am
LizzyBennet
Active Member

Unlike for men, more forward growth does not unequivocally look better for women. For some women it does indeed have a masculinising effect. Forward growth and well developed maxilla and mandible entail such characteristics such as stronger, bigger, more square shaped jawline and chin and bigger cheekbones, which pretty much always make men look better, but on women, it can be hit and miss depending on the rest of her facial characteristics. 

The lady whose blog this is: http://www.michalechatham.com/blog/celebrating-two-years-migraine-free , for example - there are men who think she is less attractive after the 'improvements' because her bigger, more chiselled bone structure makes her look less feminine, less soft. So, first, beauty is in the eye of the beholder (I think the lady looks MUCH better after the improvements), and second, particularly for women, it is less of a guarantee that more forward growth will make them more attractive. The reason you don't find the girl in the photo that mrkarenmulder posted attractive is not because she isn't forward grown enough, she's just not a very attractive woman who has masculine features (thick straight eyebrows with no arch, square jawline, wide nose with a bulbous tip, thick, straight across lips with no curves, etc.). If she got a wider palate, wider mandible, shorter face, better eye support, like you say she should, she would still look masculine, possibly even more masculine than she does currently, because the straight eyebrows and bulbous nose tip, etc. aren't going to change.

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 05/11/2019 8:59 am
LizzyBennet
Active Member

Also, if you think being a non-vegan is '[Rude Language or Insults are not tolerated]', please keep your opinions to yourself. Everyone has the right to eat what they want and how they see fit depending on their individual physiology, needs, health goals and taste preference. There is absolutely no need to call anyone [Rude Language or Insults are not tolerated] based on their diet.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 05/11/2019 9:03 am
Kyte
 Kyte
Estimable Member
Posted by: @20_year_old_mewing

As for diet, the idea that animal products have a healthy place in any part of our diet is absolutely retarted.

Interesting, do you use dietary supplements ,by chance?

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Posted : 05/11/2019 9:21 am
20_year_old_mewing
Active Member

@kyte

I take b12. Not that this debunks Veganism in any way if that's what you're implying

ReplyQuote
Posted : 05/11/2019 5:13 pm
20_year_old_mewing
Active Member

@lizzybennet

Na I won't keep my opinons to myself. I'll do the right thing.

Not sure what you're saying I called non-vegans. I would definelty say most are addicted and/or selfish to an extent, as many, inclduing my brother, have admitted to me. Age is a massive factor, the younger people are the more open they are to change.

I am also selfish to an extent. But the number 1 criteria for wheather you live a peaceful life is if you are vegan. Being vegan is for most people, the easiest way to make the world a better place. I ate around 70% of calories from meat, milk,and eggs, and I went vegan overnight. It was easy as f***

The idea that some people are better off eating meat for fitness, health or taste reasons, is again stupid. I'm not going to bother explaining everything to every omni online. Look it up yourself. Iv'e had this exact conversation a good 1000 times. Again, like taking out the trash.

At the end you imply that diet is nothing worth a fight over. SAYS WHO? says a human.....o right.....moving on.

 

No she needs a longer face. She would look more girly with counterclockwise rotation. It would probably slighly lenghen the face and improve her eyes. Resulting is less squared appearence, she would look younger, and possibly fix those folds. 

 

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Posted : 05/11/2019 6:02 pm
LizzyBennet
Active Member

@20_year_old_mewing

In your previous post you said her face was too long and now you say she needs a longer face. I have no idea what you are on about and I think neither do you. We’ll end it here, shall we? I find what you say about non vegans very offensive. Also, veganism or otherwise has nothing to do with the topic at hand. The deleted words in my post was exactly the word you used to call non vegans (r**tarded). They just got deleted because I spelt the word correctly while yours didn’t get deleted because you spelt them wrong! *Hint: the word in question has only one ‘t’.

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Posted : 05/11/2019 7:59 pm