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Shane
(@shane)
Active Member

This happens occasionally on my front teeth for the same reasons. I'm pretty careful when I eat now.

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Posted : 27/09/2018 11:08 am
Apollo liked
Apollo
(@apollo)
Reputable Member

Because of work and travel, I've been inconsistent about taking my supplements for the past couple weeks. Today is the day that my next batch of liver should be ready to prepare, but I still have about half of the last batch left to use up first. This has also confounded my experiment with adding 5mg of Mk-4 to my 100mcg of Mk-7. Some days I have missed the Mk-4 with my first meal, other days I have missed the Mk-7 with my second meal, and other days I have missed both. There haven't been any updates to the tracking on my myobrace A3 order since it was accepted by the carrier. It will probably arrive sometime next week. I have now been using the A2 consistently for about one and a half months. Maybe I will plan on using the A2 for about 2 months and then the A3 for about 4 months to stabilize my palate expansion. Afterward, I'm not sure if I will focus only on oral posture and monitor for any expansion or relapse or if I will move on to another appliance strategy.

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Posted : 03/10/2018 4:28 pm
Apollo
(@apollo)
Reputable Member

I've written in the past about how the roof of my mouth seemed to level off closer to the topography of my torus palatinus during the course of expansion. I think this process has continued since I finished using the expander so that the torus is now even less prominent. Maybe the myobrace is helping to keep the remodeling going. The right lobe of the torus is still a little lower than the left lobe to about the same degree as my occlusal cant. If I ever decide to use another acrylic expander, it would be nice to have the roof of my mouth flatter and less crooked so that the appliance would fit better.

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Posted : 04/10/2018 4:12 pm
Apollo
(@apollo)
Reputable Member

For some reason, when I first wake up in the morning and take out the myobrace, I find that my teeth make contact at my left lateral incisors. After a while, the occlusion adjusts and seems to balance out with all of the incisors making contact.

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Posted : 05/10/2018 5:00 pm
Apollo
(@apollo)
Reputable Member
Posted by: Apollo

I also found these instructions from the listing to be an interesting estimate for the duration of treatment:

  • D1 is soft, the first stage, use 1 – 3months.
  • D2 is moderate, the second stage, use 6 – 8 months.
  • D3 is hard, the third stage, use 5 – 8 months.
  • The correction process is divided into three stages. After using D1 for 1 month, you can gradually use D2 together.
  • Use D2 on daytime and D1 at night. When you fully adapted to D2, you can be gradually use D3 together. Use D3 on daytime and D2 at night. You must wear it every day, normally, there will be noticeable improvement in 4 – 6 months.

These are instructions that I posted in one of the Myobrace threads, which I found on a listing for the knock-off Dent-Care brand trainers. Their D1, D2, and D3 levels are analogous to the rigidities of the myobrace A1, A2, and A3. I started at level 2 because I didn't have much crowding. I'm not planning to use the myobrace for as long as these instructions recommend because I want to continue expansion after I've stabilized my progress from the last round and the large myobrace isn't any larger than my current intermolar width. My plan was to complete 2 months with the A2 and then move on to the A3 and use it about 4 months for a total of 6 months of stabilization. What's interesting about these instructions is the recommendation about transitioning between stages. They say you should use the more-rigid trainer for your daytime hours and then switch back to the easier level during the night so that it is more comfortable to sleep. I think I will try this for about a month once the A3 arrives: using the A3 for a couple hours during the day and the A2 at night until I get accustomed to the higher rigidity.

This post was modified 6 months ago 2 times by Apollo
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Posted : 06/10/2018 9:42 pm
Apollo
(@apollo)
Reputable Member

I find that my right lower lateral incisor is lining up with the central incisors better than my left lower lateral incisor, which still has its mesial edge behind the centrals. I expect my A3 to arrive soon. The firmer plastic should apply more force to align the teeth. I assume that I will have to make adjustments to the lip bumpers so that they don't rub against my buccal exostoses like I did with the A2. When I look in the mirror, I feel like the asymmetries I had at the beginning of the year are significantly improved, and I've measured definite improvements. However, today I saw a photo of myself and I was struck by how apparent my occlusal cant and crooked nose still are. I guess this is because I'm not accustomed to seeing my face unmirrored, or maybe it was just a bad picture, but it made me more determined to keep moving ahead with expansion in the hopes that my asymmetry will continue to improve.

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Posted : 08/10/2018 11:28 pm
DeepSquat
(@deepsquat)
Active Member

With the acrylic expander, after the 6mm expansion, Im presuming you were no longer able to remove anymore acrylic, so it no longer fit and thus had to discontinue use?

It seemed like things were going well, curious why you chose to halt your expansion and go with myobrace for 'stabilization,' rather than order another expander and continue until closer to desired IMW was achieved?

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Posted : 09/10/2018 11:05 am
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Apollo
(@apollo)
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Posted by: DeepSquat

With the acrylic expander, after the 6mm expansion, Im presuming you were no longer able to remove anymore acrylic, so it no longer fit and thus had to discontinue use?

It seemed like things were going well, curious why you chose to halt your expansion and go with myobrace for 'stabilization,' rather than order another expander and continue until closer to desired IMW was achieved?

Hi DeepSquat, thanks for your question! I advanced my expander screw a total of 28 turns for a separation of 7mm. However, the screw was placed slightly crooked in the acrylic framework, so not all of that separation went toward lateral displacement. I got about 6mm of increased intermolar width. When I got to that point, the screw mechanism became wobbly and if I turned it any farther, the little posts next to the screw pulled through the brackets and the two halves of the expander could rotate freely around the screw. So I had to wind it back to just 7mm to keep the expander together. As you mentioned, it was also becoming impossible to file down any more acrylic from the top of the expander to maintain the fit as the brackets of the screw mechanism were starting to become exposed. So I wouldn't have been able to expand much farther anyway. My current intermolar width is just under 40mm. I would really like to increase my intermolar width by at least another 5mm. I have considered starting another round of expansion. I didn't get a new expander and start immediately after the last round for a few reasons. With 6mm of extra space, it is now radically easier to maintain correct tongue posture. So I am curious to see if I can make any more progress without a device. The right side of my upper arch was more rounded than the left, and I had some minor tipping of my first bicuspids from the expander. The solid framework of the acrylic expanders lock in asymmetries and I wanted to allow time to improve the shape of my arches. I decided that a myobrace would be the best way to cement my progress while allowing flexibility for continued improvements. Unfortunately the intermolar width of the large size adult myobrace is right around 40mm, so the recoil of the plastic doesn't give me any more expansion, and it might actually be a little small for my mandibular arch, but I feel like it is helping with the shape of my arches. I would also like to achieve forward changes, so I am considering other appliance options once I finish using the myobrace, if I don't see progress from tongue posture alone.

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Posted : 09/10/2018 4:35 pm
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Apollo
(@apollo)
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My large Myobrace A3 arrived yesterday. I used it for a few hours during the day yesterday and then switched back to the A2 overnight. I'm happy I got it! Besides being more rigid, there are a couple structural differences from the A2 that I like. The lip bumpers are shorter than the A2. Holding the new A3 next to my adjusted A2, they were almost the same height. I still had to file them down slightly to prevent rubbing on my buccal exostoses, but only in the area of my upper canines. The hollow tongue tag makes it easier to maintain correct tongue posture. Even the few hours I used it yesterday seemed to push my left lower lateral incisor closer to alignment with the central incisors. I'm still hoping that my lower intercanine width will expand a little. It's comfortable enough that I think I could probably sleep with the A3 already, but I found that it was much easier to keep my teeth all the way in the channels of the A2 while I slept after using the A3 during the day. I think I will continue to use the A2 overnight for at least another week. Next monday will mark 2 months since I've been consistently sleeping through the night with the myobrace.

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Posted : 10/10/2018 9:14 pm
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Apollo
(@apollo)
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For the past few days, I've been using the A3 for a few hours while awake and then switching to the A2 during sleep. The alignment of my lower incisors has seemed to accelerate, with the right lateral incisor now mostly staying in line with the centrals. The medial edge of the left lateral incisor is still behind, but not as much. I've made a couple puzzling observations. I sometimes have a strange feeling like my TMJ is slipping in and out of its socket soon after taking out the A3. Maybe this is just because it is protruding my mandible and my occlusion is not stable in this new position. I've also noticed that the cant of my maxilla might be slightly better than it was when I completed expansion, but it seems like the cant of my mandible isn't keeping up. It's like my maxilla is about 2 degrees higher on the left, but my mandible is about 3 degrees higher on the left. This leaves more of an open bite on the right side of my mouth than the left, especially when I first take out the myobrace in the morning. I've mentioned before how it feels like my teeth initially make contact on the left lateral incisors. After a while the occlusion seems to become more balanced. Hopefully this is a sign of progress in correcting my occlusal cant and the mandible will catch up with the maxilla.

This post was modified 5 months ago 2 times by Apollo
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Posted : 12/10/2018 9:20 pm
Apollo
(@apollo)
Reputable Member

The myobrace literature always says "Do not chew on your Myobrace!" I guess they make the "myo munchee" which is intended to be chewed on, but they don't recommend chewing on the myobrace activators. In contrast, I've seen instructions for other activators which recommend that you "nibble" on their mouthpieces, and one recommended an exercise of repeatedly biting down hard for about 30 seconds and then releasing. I woke up chewing on my Myobrace a couple times when I was first starting to use it and having trouble fitting my teeth down into their channels. I'm now wondering if it would be beneficial to add some variety in the amount and frequency of my bite force without actually chewing on the myobrace to the degree that it would cause damage. I think it feels good and encourages alignment, so I'm going to experiment with these exercises during my daytime hours.

This post was modified 5 months ago 2 times by Apollo
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Posted : 14/10/2018 2:17 am
Apollo
(@apollo)
Reputable Member

I did some comparison of intraoral images tonight using photo editing software to overlay pictures of my maxillary arch before treatment, after expansion, and now. I've done this in the past comparing before and after my palate expander. Both the current picture and the post-expansion picture are definitely wider than the baseline picture. I was curious to see if there has been any relapse since I maxed out the expander. There might be some very slight narrowing, but it could also be the angle the picture was taken (which is hard to standardize) and the molars could be slightly farther from the lens making the palate width appear smaller by maybe 1mm or less. However, what's more discernible is that the shape of my arch looks more symmetrical than it did either before or after using the palate expander. In the past, my right side was more rounded and the left side went straighter back. Because the shape of the expander is fixed, it mostly maintained this discrepancy. The myobrace seems to have made the right a little less rounded and the left a little more rounded so that they are much closer to mirror images. I'm pleased with this effect. If I decide to do another round of expansion, I think it will give me a better starting point for the expander to work with.

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Posted : 15/10/2018 12:30 am
Apollo
(@apollo)
Reputable Member

Today marked 2 months since I've been consistently sleeping through the night with the myobrace. I'm pleased with my progress so far. I think I will continue to use the A3 during the day and the A2 at night for at least another week, maybe until the medial edge of my left lower lateral incisor comes forward. Then it should be easier to keep my teeth down in the channels of the A3 during sleep. I'll plan to continue with the myobrace through at least January or February and then reevaluate if I'm ready to move on to a new expander, another appliance, or tongue posture alone. 

For the past few days, I've enjoyed brushing with the DIY remineralizing tooth powder that I made (  https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/alternative-dental-hygiene-and-remineralizing-teeth/#post-9030 ).  I think I will continue using it exclusively instead of my commercial toothpaste. I'm considering occasional activated charcoal to help with whitening, and I should probably resume my oil pulling.

This post was modified 5 months ago by Apollo
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Posted : 16/10/2018 1:36 am
FioraLaurent
(@fioralaurent)
Active Member

So basically do you find any real reasons to buy the a3 after the a2 or both are pretty much the same pls?

Also how did you findthe a3 , can't find him on the net :/ 

Best luck on ur journey !

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Posted : 16/10/2018 4:43 pm
Apollo
(@apollo)
Reputable Member
Posted by: FioraLaurent

So basically do you find any real reasons to buy the a3 after the a2 or both are pretty much the same pls?

Also how did you findthe a3 , can't find him on the net :/ 

Best luck on ur journey !

I purchased the A3 from the same supplier that I got the A2 on aliexpress. I like the rigidity of the A3 and the hollow tongue tag. It seems to be accelerating the alignment of my lower incisors and facilitating better tongue posture. Unfortunately, unless you have negligible crowding you probably couldn't start with the A3. Even the A2 took me about a week to be able to sleep with it comfortably.

Posted by: Apollo
Posted by: Le_Fort_or_Bust

Can you link to reputable aliexpress merchant for these items? And how to determine which size I need from my intermolar witdth? At is 37 mm at first molars.

The sellers I have seen on aliexpress are NUODI Dental Appliace Store, ZZSMILE DENTAL Store, Orthodontic trainer Store, and Dentalsun Store. I can't vouch for their reliability, but I would just choose the best price. If your intermolar width is 37mm, I'd guess that you would want the large size, but I haven't tried the regular size so I can't say for certain. My intermolar width is around 40mm and I feel like the large size is slightly too small for me. You'll also have to decide which level of rigidity to order. I started with the A2 because I only had minimal crowding in my lower incisors. For the first week I couldn't sleep with it in through the night so I was making up hours during the day. Since then I've slept comfortably with it every night, and now I have ordered the A3 to fine tune my alignment. If you have more significant crowding, you might want to start with the A1.

 

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Posted : 16/10/2018 4:55 pm
krollic
(@krollic)
Estimable Member

there's so many apollo. can you link which one you used or think are credible, please? 

my friend has 36 IMW. what would you recommend him?

This post was modified 5 months ago by krollic
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Posted : 16/10/2018 5:41 pm
starJammer
(@starjammer)
Active Member

Wow. I wish I were as methodical in my approach with the FAGGA as you are. Ronnie has done a great job documenting his expansion and process as well. Thanks for the plethora of info regarding your process and improvements.

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Posted : 16/10/2018 5:56 pm
Apollo
(@apollo)
Reputable Member
Posted by: krollic

there's so many apollo. can you link which one you used or think are credible, please? 

my friend has 36 IMW. what would you recommend him?

I believe that I communicated with both NUODI Dental Appliance Store (  https://www.aliexpress.com/store/3473010 ) and Orthodontic trainer Store (  https://www.aliexpress.com/store/2342047 ), but ended up purchasing from NUODI because the price was slightly better at the time. They both seemed to be pretty responsive with customer service inquiries. I have no reason to doubt that the other sellers I mentioned might also be credible, but I think they were more expensive. The A2 and A3 sometimes go on sale at the different stores, and some of the sellers accept different methods of payment, so check the current prices, contact the sellers with any questions, and then choose what's best for you.

This post was modified 5 months ago 2 times by Apollo
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Posted : 16/10/2018 7:52 pm
Apollo
(@apollo)
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Posted by: starJammer

Wow. I wish I were as methodical in my approach with the FAGGA as you are. Ronnie has done a great job documenting his expansion and process as well. Thanks for the plethora of info regarding your process and improvements.

Thanks @starjammer! Accounts like yours in the FAGGA thread and Ronnie Ead's blog make me think I might try FAGGA myself after I've stabilized my transverse expansion and want to focus on forward changes. I'm not sure if I could find a competent provider in my area or if I could afford it.

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Posted : 16/10/2018 8:02 pm
Apollo
(@apollo)
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After using the A3 during daytime hours and the A2 at night for more than a week, I slept through the night with the A3 for the first time last night. It looks like my left lower lateral incisor is staying slightly closer to alignment through the day today. After more than 2 months consistently using the myobrace, I might be ready to completely transition to the last stage. I've decided that there probably isn't any reason continuing with the softer level for longer would achieve better results. I'm still concerned that the cant of my lower teeth seems to be about 1 degree worse than the cant of my upper teeth. While the cant of my maxilla is clearly skeletal, the mandible itself doesn't appear to be crooked so maybe my lower teeth just need to erupt or upright to meet the improving position of my maxilla. I just hope this is a sign that my upper teeth are improving rather than my lower teeth getting worse.

I prepared a new batch of beef liver last night, after I missed my dose yesterday. I've done oil pulling for the past two mornings, and I'm continuing to use my homemade tooth powder for brushing. One factor that I don't like about the recipe is how the cinnamon discolors the bristles of my toothbrush and makes the sink messy when I spit it out. I decided to make a powder rather than mixing it with coconut oil for a paste because the oil is bad for the plumbing so you are supposed to spit it out in the trash. Since I don't like spitting the powder in the sink anyway, maybe I'll try adding the coconut oil next time I make it. It looks like it will last for a while, and I'll have eggshells ready to use again before I need more. I'm debating if I want to make some additional eggshell calcium powder to take as a supplement.

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Posted : 17/10/2018 8:54 pm
Apollo
(@apollo)
Reputable Member

When I woke up this morning after sleeping with the A3 for the second night, I had a very minor diastema between my lower central incisors. The lower left lateral incisor was still tilted slightly behind the central. I don't know why a midline gap would open while there is still some crowding of the adjacent tooth (without a suture in the mandible), but hopefully it's a sign that I'm getting some lower intercanine expansion. This evening the diastema has mostly closed, but I'll check again tomorrow morning.

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Posted : 18/10/2018 9:12 pm
Apollo
(@apollo)
Reputable Member

This morning, I had a slight gap on both sides of my lower left central incisor when I took out the myobrace A3. The contact between the lower left central and lateral incisors has been my last remnant of minor crowding, so it's encouraging to see extra space there. However, the medial edge of the lower left lateral incisor was still tilted slightly behind the central. 

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Posted : 19/10/2018 4:45 pm
Apollo
(@apollo)
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The gaps on either side of my lower left central incisor are now remaining throughout the day, and the adjacent teeth seem to be a little closer to alignment with it. This is the tooth that originally started out positioned behind the others. Now its distal edge is slightly ahead of the lower left lateral incisor. I have a theory with activators like the myobrace that its effects sequentially focus on the areas of the upper or lower arch farthest from the shape of the channels. So if my lower left anterior teeth are currently most discrepant from the activator, the force when biting down is most focused in that area. Once that part of the arch gets closer to the intended shape, another area might start to have more movement. For example, my lower left molars tilt to the lingual side. Once the impediment of the front lower left teeth is no longer holding back the activator it might start working more on the back teeth. Also, my intercanine width is narrower on the bottom, but my intermolar width is narrower on top. Since the top and bottom channels are connected, if my intercanine width expands, then I might start to see expansion or uprighting of the molars.

At a restaurant today, I saw a young woman with exceptional facial structure. Her cheekbones and jawline were remarkable. I had to stop myself from staring. She was with a young man who looked like her except with a longer face. I couldn't decipher if it was a brother or boyfriend situation. I suspected brother because he looked so much like her except if her ideal development had been corrupted, making them look both very alike and very different. I also doubted she would be dating someone so much less attractive. I thought about just how rare it is to encounter someone in person with such good development and how magnetic those features can be. I wanted to observe her chewing and swallowing practices, but they took their food to go. I did notice that her posture was impeccable.

This post was modified 5 months ago 2 times by Apollo
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Posted : 20/10/2018 9:21 pm
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Apollo
(@apollo)
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Now a gap is also starting to open up between my lower right central and lateral incisors. So I have minor (<<1m) spaces on either side of both of my bottom front two teeth. I think this means that I am getting at least some minor increase in my lower intercanine width. Hopefully the process will continue and the distal edges of my lower canines will get closer to the medial edges of my upper canines. This was the issue that we discussed in this thread ( https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/how-to-encourage-the-mandibular-arch-to-keep-up-with-expansion-of-the-maxillary-arch/# ), and it seems like the myobrace might be helping, but it's still too early to say for sure.

I made some eggshell calcium powder from four eggshells last night. It didn't produce a lot of powder, but enough to try supplementing with it for a few days. I don't currently take any kind of calcium supplement, but I eat a fair amount of dairy. I've seen recommendations to take about 1/2 to 1 teaspoon eggshell calcium per day. I'm going to start with 1/2 tsp. At that rate, the amount I made might last about a week. I eat a lot of eggs so I can easily make more soon if I like taking it, but it is kind of a hassle to prepare with the drying in the oven, the pulverizing in a spice grinder, and the cleanup. It's nice to make a larger portion at once, but then I need to start saving up the empty eggshells.

This post was modified 5 months ago 3 times by Apollo
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Posted : 22/10/2018 3:27 pm
Apollo
(@apollo)
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After taking my homemade eggshell calcium powder for the second day, I'm still not sure if it is something I want to use in the long term, and if so how I should take it. The first day, I dumped the 1/2 tsp directly in my mouth and then chased it with water. Since this felt chalky in my mouth, today I put the powder into the water and then tried to drink it, but I needed to refill the water several times to get the powder out of he cup and there were still some traces left behind. Sources online recommend mixing it into foods or smoothies, but warn that it can sometimes make them gritty. I would prefer something that I don't have to chew. Another source recommends dissolving the powder in apple cider vinegar overnight and then mixing it with water to drink. In essence this is the same reaction that happens with the stomach acid (CaCO3 + 2H+ --> Ca2+ + H2O + CO2), so maybe it would be just as good to take it in this form. I'll keep experimenting with it while I have powder left to use up before I decide to make another batch.

This post was modified 5 months ago 2 times by Apollo
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Posted : 23/10/2018 4:26 pm
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Apollo
(@apollo)
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I tried creating a tincture with my eggshell calcium powder and apple cider vinegar last night. When I first added the vinegar to the powder, there was a pretty dramatic reaction with the release of CO2 bubbles, but most of the powder seemed to remain at the bottom of the jar, and agitating it didn't help after the initial fizz. I let it sit overnight, but it looked about the same this morning. I tried adding a little more vinegar but it didn't seem to do much. So I don't think this is a viable way to take my eggshell calcium. I might just go back to dumping it in my mouth and then chasing it with water.

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Posted : 24/10/2018 4:03 pm
Apollo
(@apollo)
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Inspired by the thread about the Nemechek Protocol, I've done a lot more reading about SIBO. The adult protocol recommends that I should take Rifaximin, but I don't have a doctor to prescribe the medication or insurance likely to cover it, and even if I did, I don't really like the idea of using an antibiotic to improve my gut microbiome. I guess my concern is what the antibiotic is doing to the good bacteria in my large intestine while its killing off the bad bacteria in my small intestine. One alternative would be to follow the child protocol and just use inulin. I've been taking inulin for more than two years and I'm up to a dose around twice what Nemechek recommends without excess flatulence. I could change my fish oil brand and increase my olive oil consumption and see if this has any effect. Alternatively, I could try one of the herbal preparations in the article greensmoothies linked. These are still expensive, but more economical than the Rifaximin if its not covered by insurance. I've also been delving into alternative prebiotics like resistant starch (which I've never taken as a supplement), and gum arabic (which I've only sampled a few times), and I've seen recommendations to take psyllium and green powder. Nemechek recommends to stay away from probiotic capsules, but I've seen others recommend soil-based species. Maybe I should be diversifying the fermented foods that I eat. Anyway, I'm not sure if I will try any of this, but it helps me to write it down so I can come back and reference it later.

This post was modified 5 months ago by Apollo
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Posted : 24/10/2018 10:30 pm
Apollo
(@apollo)
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I bought more beef liver today, so it should be ready to prepare by 11/8/18. I've used up about half of the last batch. Hopefully I have enough to last a couple weeks. I didn't remember to take my eggshell calcium powder with either of my meals today.

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Posted : 25/10/2018 10:49 pm
Apollo
(@apollo)
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If we're looking for prebiotic fiber to feed our gut flora, we mostly want soluble fiber that we can't metabolize but our good GI bacteria can. Insoluble fiber is relatively inert. We can't metabolize it, but neither can our bacteria. It doesn't dissolve in water and can irritate and increase inflammation of the gut lining. I suppose insoluble fiber might provide a matrix in which the bacteria can grow and also help regulate the speed and bulk of stool transit. Many dietary fiber sources have a combination of both soluble and insoluble.

Inulin is a good example of the kind of prebiotic fiber we want. It is soluble chains of fructose, sourced from various roots like chicory, agave, sunchokes, jicama, etc. I currently take about 3 to 6 teaspoons of inulin per day. I usually take one dose after lunch and then another after dinner if I remember. I plan to continue taking inulin, but I might reduce my dose and add in a range of other fiber options.

Starches are polysaccharides composed of glucose. We can digest basic starches, liberating the glucose monomers and using them for our own energy. However, some types, called “resistant starch,” pass through the small intestine undigested and these chains of glucose can feed the gut flora like the chains of fructose in inulin can. As bacteria digest the starch they convert it into short chain fatty acids including butyrate, which feeds the cells lining the colon, and has been shown to reduce the risk of colon cancer. There are several types of resistant starch. Type 1 is found in grains, seeds, and legumes, and resists digestion because it is bound within the fibrous cell walls. Type 2 is found in uncooked starchy foods like potato, green banana, plantains, etc. Type 3 is formed when certain starchy foods (e.g. potatoes and rice) are cooked and then cooled, crystalizing into indigestible chains by retrogradation. Some sources claim that type 2 resistant starch is quickly fermented in the proximal colon and doesn’t make it through to the distal colon, negating some of its utility. RS3 is slower to ferment, lowering the pH across the whole colon. There doesn’t seem to be any kind of refined version of RS3 available, so I would have to get this in my diet by eating cooked and cooled potatoes and other tubers, rice, maybe plantains, etc. RS2 can be supplemented by taking raw potato starch powder or Hi-Maize, which retains much of its resistant quality even when cooked. 

Mucilage is a soluble fiber (chains of sugars with proteins attached) produced by plants (and some bacteria), especially cacti and succulents (e.g. aloe vera), seeds in their germination process (e.g. flax and chia), and certain seaweeds and roots. Studies support the prebiotic potential of aloe vera and cactus mucliage. I'll have to do more research about how to incorporate aloe vera and/or prickly pear cactus in my diet and/or supplements. Agar and alginate bearing seaweed species have also been shown to have prebiotic potential. I often take kelp granules. Perhaps I will look into purchasing some whole leaf species. Agar agar is available in powder form. Flax and chia seeds contain both insoluble and soluble mucilage fiber. They also contain both healthy omega-3 fatty acids (ALA) and phytic acid antinutrients. So it's questionable if we should take them on a regular basis. I currently consume about 2.25 to 4.5 tsp of chia seeds on most days, soaked in kefir overnight to encourage the seeds to gel and breakdown antinutrients. Chia is recommended on the Nemechek Protocol for its ALA. I think I'll continue to take it frequently. Psyllium seeds likewise contain both soluble and insolube fiber. The form commonly found in fiber supplements like Metamucil is psyllium husk powder, which gels in liquid because of its mucilage soluble fiber, but the insoluble fiber of the husks can be irritating to the gut lining, there seems to be less evidence of the prebiotic potential of psyllium's mucilage, and consuming the whole seeds doesn't provide omega-3 like flax or chia. So, in balance, I think psyllium should be avoided (even though it is recommended by people like Dr. Grace Liu in her SIBO treatment protocol). I believe that exopolysaccharides from bacteria like the viscous levan strings of natto and the gelatinous kefiran of kefir can also be classified as mucilage fiber, so consuming these probiotic fermented foods might carry its own prebiotic along with it that could feed both its own species and other gut flora.

Pectin is a chain of sugars found in plant cell walls, especially fruits. It's sold in powder form, usually extracted from citrus, and is often used as a gelling agent. I eat a fair amount of fruit which imparts some pectin on its own, but I might consider adding pectin powder to a rotation of dietary fiber supplements, as it has been shown to have a prebiotic effect. Baobab fruit fiber is predominately soluble and much of that is made up of pectin. I've never tried it because it is relatively expensive, but I'd like to occasionally add it to my rotation.

Arabinogalactan is a soluble polysacharide. It is a major component of gum arabic which is available in powdered form, sometimes called Acacia Senegal because it is produced from the sap of acacia trees. I've sampled gum arabic before, but haven't taken it consistently. Arabinogalactan is also sourced from North American larch trees and is available in powder form. Both of these could be good additions to my prebiotic rotation.

Galactooligosaccharides (GOS) are polymers synthesized through enzymatic conversion of lactose from cow's milk. It is marketed as a prebiotic soluble fiber, with research supporting its effect on gut flora and the immune system. A company called Bimuno makes it in the UK, but international shipping could be expensive. I'll want to explore other brands if I decide to try it. Xylooligosaccharides (XOS) are polymers of the sugar xylose, synthesized from xylan plant fiber. Research supports its prebiotic effect at a lower dose than inulin.

Chitin is a polysaccharide that forms the exoskeleton of arthropods and the cell walls of fungi. A number of mushrooms have additional health benefits, so supplementing with powders of such fungi might be worth considering. I'm also open to the idea of taking cricket flour, but it seems overpriced.

Polyphenols are colorful compounds found in fruits and vegetables. A fraction of polyphenols are absorbed in the small intestine, but most are digested by bacteria in the large intestine. They have been shown to have selective prebiotic effect, and their modification by the bacteria enables uptake of the polyphenol into the systemic circulation.

I'm sure I've missed many other potential prebiotic fibers, but this is the extent of my research so far. In the coming days, I'd like to make a list of those I want to experiment with. I will probably continue to always take inulin and chia, but then rotate in a few other types and find what seems to work best for my gut. Please let me know if you have any recommendations!

This post was modified 5 months ago 2 times by Apollo
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Posted : 27/10/2018 4:48 pm
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I think I will wait to get through the holiday season with all of its dietary irregularities, and then start a month herbal treatment for SIBO, while suspending supplementation with fermentable fibers, and avoiding carbohydrates. At the end of that treatment I will gradually reintroduce inulin, and then chia, and eventually rotate through some of the other prebiotics I discussed in the post above. I'll also change my fish oil brand and take more olive oil. I'm not sure if probiotics should be part of this process. Nemechek says no but other sources say yes.

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Posted : 27/10/2018 11:02 pm
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The buccal exostoses above both of my upper canines have been a little sore today and the right side looks like it might have an ulcer developing. I suspect that the myobrace was rubbing against them last night. Maybe my teeth are fitting down farther into the channels, causing the lip bumpers to reach farther up on my gums. I think I will file down the lip bumpers in that area by about a millimeter so that the irritation doesn't get worse tonight.

Edit: I tried on the myobrace, and there's no way it is rubbing high enough to cause the irritation on my exostoses. Maybe I somehow caused trauma while eating.

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Posted : 01/11/2018 7:26 pm
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Nemechek Adult Protocol Notes: not all of these components are recommended for all patients, and some of them are initiated later after the other interventions have taken effect or if symptoms persist. I've listed them here to help me understand which parts of the protocol to implement or modify and in what timeframe.

Rifaximin (potentially substituted by herbal treatment): bactericidal, reduce LPS in bloodstream, which activate microglia in brain to produce pro-inflammatory cytokines.

Inulin (optional): bacteriostatic, reduce LPS in bloodstream, which activate microglia in brain to produce pro-inflammatory cytokines.

Fish Oil: 3000 mg docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) omega-3 helps convert pro-inflammatory microglia in brain back to anti-inflammatory state.

Flax Oil (or nuts, flax, or chia seeds): 1000 mg alpha-linolenic acid (ALA) omega-3 helps reduce systemic inflammation and increase levels of DHA in the brain.

Extra Virgin Olive Oil: 2 tablespoons oleic acid omega-9 reduces tissue concentrations of pro-inflammatory omega-6 fatty acids (while restricting consumption of oils high in omega-6), reduced blood brain barrier permeability.

Vagus nerve stimulation (optional/refractory): inhibits inflammatory cytokines, regulates GI motility.

Intermittent fasting, time-restricted feeding, low-carbohydrate diet (optional/refractory): Restricting caloric intake to 500-600 calories on one or two nonconsecutive days per week (not including the calories from oil regimen), and/or limiting food consumption to 6-8 hours per day induces hormesis cell repair mechanisms. Reducing carbohydrate consumption to less than 100 grams per day decreases insulin and inflammation, and increases neuroplasticity.

Curcumin (optional/refractory): reduces systemic pro-inflammatory cytokines.

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Posted : 02/11/2018 4:30 pm
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I've had a dry mouth all day today and I'm not sure why. I think sometimes when I rechew an old piece of mastic gum it has a tendency to dry out my mouth, and I've been using the same piece every day for most of this week. Maybe that's the problem? I tried oil pulling to help moisturize my mucosa, and I think it helped a little, but my tongue still feels parched. I guess I will skip the mastic chewing for a few days, or maybe just switch to a new piece.

These quotes might be helpful if I undertake a second round of expansion:

Posted by: ImperialMajesty

I don't believe the midpalatal suture fuses at puberty.  All the circummaxillary sutures never fuse till the 7th to 8th decade, they just become more interdigitated and therefore harder to modify with age.  The circummaxillary sutures probably served a "cushion" function in our ancestors, to help absorb the persistent and powerful pounding of the maxilla by the mandible during chewing and biting.

Posted by: ImperialMajesty

The reason the Mews advocate about 1mm a week for expansion is because any slower would probably not open the suture, and any faster would probably crush the periodontal membrane/ be very damaging for the anchoring teeth.  Moreover, bone can only fill in about 1 mm per week at maximum, so this rate is recommended for stability purposes.

Posted by: ImperialMajesty

Rapid palatal expansion is less stable than its semi rapid counterpart, due to bone only being able to fill in at about 1mm per week at maximum.  When RPE is anchored to the teeth, it crushes the periodontal membrane and risks root resorption.  Because you are using a microscrew anchored expansion appliance, you don't have much to worry about.

Posted by: Varbrah

You need large forces to overcome the resistance of the maxillary buttress, so you want rapid palatal expansion with full sutural disarticulation. Semi-rapid palatal expansion results in bone bending and increased expansion in the inferior maxilla relative to the superior maxilla, vs RPE. sRPE actually ends up being LESS stable specifically because it is not disruptive enough, and is never able to fully overcome the resistance of the surrounding structures. 

The above is probably the reason why Dr Mew failed to achieve skeletal expansion of his adult patient, even when using the MSE. 

Optimal rate of distraction for any osteogenetic tissue is 1mm/day. Maybe you are referring to cortical bone and not cancellous bone. In any case, you DO NOT want bone to fill in/heal completely when expanding, that is counterproductive — you want the suture to remain disarticulated/pliable.

Agree Re: root resorption risk with tooth-anchored expansion.

Posted by: ImperialMajesty

I suppose you may have a point with semi rapid maxillary expansion.  I still do however believe that the bone fill should be maximized (though to your point it should be slightly disarticulated at all times during the expansion).

I am fairly certain that a more semi rapid rate of expansion aids with sutural disarticulation due to the "melting away" of bone salts rather than violent fractures at the suture sites.

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Posted : 03/11/2018 9:31 pm
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I have started getting together some Nemechek protocol components. I have purchased the California Olive Ranch EVOO. I will be working my way up to taking 2 tablespoons per day plus whatever I use in my food. I've read some sources which suggest that there is some benefit from taking it on an empty stomach in the morning (although Nemechek says the timing doesn't matter). I think I will take 1 tablespoon in the morning and then add another tablespoon later in the day once I see how my gut responds. I plan to continue taking inulin, but I think I am going to reduce my dose closer to the amount Nemechek recommends. In the past I was taking as much as 6 teaspoons per day without much flatulence, but Nemechek recommends just 2 teaspoons. I think I will cut back to 3 teaspoons per day divided into two 1.5 teaspoon servings after meals. I might switch from inulin to a course of herbal SIBO treatment sometime after the holidays when I can have more control over my diet. Fish oil will be the most expensive part of this plan. I still have to order the Nemechek recommended brand. In the past, taking other brands of fish oil and even eating fatty fish has given me diarrhea, so I plan to taper up my dose gradually to 3 teaspoons (1 tablespoon) per day and divide it across 2 or 3 servings per day. Right now I am taking a 1000mg fish oil softgel twice a day from a cheap brand. I'm going to keep taking that until the good stuff arrives. I plan to order the Now brand flax seed oil and take one 1000mg softgel per day. I eat a fair amount of turmeric in my diet, but I am also debating ordering some to take as a supplement. Nemechek typically only recommends starting curcumin after a few months in refractory cases, but I might start with it from the outset. I would probably take a smaller capsule dose of the standardized extract than Nemechek recommends and try to increase the amount of turmeric I eat by adding it to meals.

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Posted : 04/11/2018 3:42 pm
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Hi Apollo. I see you are a very prolific poster with a long thread. Do you have any before/after pictures for comparison?

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Posted : 05/11/2018 3:17 am
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For a few days, I haven't been able to access threads while logged in, but the fix admin just posted resolved the error messages for me. During my time away, I've obtained all of my Nemechek protocol components (EVOO, fish oil, inulin powder, flax oil softgels, curcumin capsules). I was worried that all of the oil would exacerbate my chronic diarrhea. Surprisingly, it seems to have had the opposite effect. I am up to the full dosage of olive oil and flax oil and I've taken two out of the three teaspoons of fish oil for the past couple days. I'm taking 3 teaspoons of inulin powder (more than the recommended 2 teaspoons), and one 665mg curcumin capsule per day (I could increase this dose later if my symptoms persist, but I get a lot of turmeric in my diet). I think I will try the full 3 teaspoons of fish oil today. I've also been experimenting with tVNS. So far, I am encouraged by the improvement in GI symptoms, and I feel like there might be some subtle improvements already in energy levels, light headedness, mood etc. It will be worth the expense if it really resolves my autonomic dysfunction. If I get good results with the inulin and oils, I'm not sure if I should still try a course of herbal SIBO treatment.

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Posted : 11/11/2018 4:05 pm
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Posted by: rocoloco

Hi Apollo. I see you are a very prolific poster with a long thread. Do you have any before/after pictures for comparison?

I don't share my progress pictures, and the changes they show are very subtle. My extra oral photos show some slight improvements in asymmetry (especially the deviated bridge of my nose and my dental midline), but I haven't achieved any discernible forward changes on profile. Intraoral photos show the expansion of my upper arch and the reduced crowding of my lower incisors.

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Posted : 11/11/2018 4:10 pm
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Yesterday marked around 3 months of consistent myobrace use. As I've mentioned before, I'm aiming for at least 6 months to feel confident that I have stabilized my last round of expansion. I had some rapid improvements in the crowding of my lower incisors when I switched to the A3, but I haven't noticed much change since then. I think the distal edges of my lower canines might be slightly closer to the medial edges of the upper canines, but there's still a gap between them when I bite together. I think I will move on to another appliance next since my intermolar width is still marginal, but I haven't decided if this will be another basic transverse expander or if I want to try a more advanced appliance (like AGGA for example) to get some sagittal expansion too.

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Posted : 16/11/2018 4:09 pm
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I've been exploring my pharynx based on the discussion in this thread (  https://the-great-work.org/community/case-discussions/a-better-anchor-for-the-whole-tongue-for-mewing-imho-it-will-cut-by-half-or-less-the-time-it-takes-to-seeing-result/ ). I found some pretty significant cobblestoning at the back and sides of my throat. I suspect this is from post-nasal drip. I've always had allergies. They seem to be slightly better in the past few years since I've improved my diet and reduced overall inflammation, but I still get a runny nose pretty frequently. I occasionally use a neti pot when my allergies are especially bad. Maybe the cobblestoning would improve if I used it more regularly. I still can't get the tip of my tongue back much farther than the junction of my hard and soft palate, so I can't engage what RamonT calls the pocket. After a few days of practicing and trying some of the exercises he recommends, I feel like I've achieved slightly more purchase on the back of my hard palate and pressing forward with the tongue does elicit the shifting sounds that I suspect reflect mobility along suture lines. I'll continue to experiment with my tongue and thumbs.

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Posted : 20/11/2018 4:20 pm
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I started taking the nemechek protocol supplements sometime around 11/9/18. So it has been about 16 days. For the first few days I wasn't taking the full fish oil recommendation. I've now used up my first 8oz bottle of nordic naturals and won't receive the next bottle for several more days. I think tomorrow I will go to a local shop and purchase nordic naturals unconcentrated version because they don't carry the concentrated version without the vitamin D added anywhere near me. This will mean that I will have to take twice the volume of fish oil each day to get roughly the same amount of DHA (6 teaspoons rather than 3 teaspoons). Hopefully it won't upset my system. I think it is a better option than missing a few days until the order with the concentrated formula arrives. If it seems to work just as well, it would be less expensive (around $2.50 rather than almost $4 per day). So far I can't say that I feel drastically different, but maybe a little.

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Posted : 25/11/2018 12:22 am
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I've continued to experiment with the manual naso-oropharyngeal myofascial release that @greensmoothies linked to in this thread (  https://the-great-work.org/community/case-discussions/a-better-anchor-for-the-whole-tongue-for-mewing-imho-it-will-cut-by-half-or-less-the-time-it-takes-to-seeing-result/#post-10622 ). My gag reflex is getting accustomed to the sensation, but I still haven't reached up as far as the pharyngeal tonsil over the spheno-occipital suture. I mentioned in an early post that I noticed significant cobblestoning of the mucosa, maybe from post-nasal drip. Tonight I was able to press against a bony protuberance at the back of my throat, which I suspect is the anterior tubercle of my atlas C1 vertebra. Maybe it's the body of the axis C2 vertebra. It felt pretty satisfying to hold pressure directly against it, but if my thumb strayed to the soft areas on either side, it made me gag. I plan to continue gradually desensitizing myself, and trying to reach up higher in the nasopharyx. It's interesting that the author of the blog about this practice also wrote about endonasal balloon inflations, and it's easy to see how this manual manipulation could achieve a similar kind of adjustment. I also wonder if my reduced gag reflex from this practice could allow me to better tolerate inflating the finger cot into my nasopharynx and maybe facilitate better distribution of pressure. 

I've also been practicing "nabho mudra" (or stage 1 of "khechari mudra"), curling back the tip of my tongue so that it tents up into the soft palate at the back edge of the hard palate. This allows me to push forward with the tongue on the hard palate from behind. When I do this I hear the shifting sounds in my ears that I interpret as mobility along maxillary suture lines. When I first attempted this, it felt like my frenulum was too tight to reach a good position. I could touch the soft palate with the tip of my tongue but couldn't really press up into it. After a couple weeks of practice, I'm getting a little better. I'm still unable to comfortably hold the tongue in that position for more than a few seconds. If I use my fingers to push back my tongue it is able to touch my uvula but no farther. I haven't been consistent about practicing talabya kriya, but various sources suggest it would help expedite the process.

Related image

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Posted : 27/11/2018 11:53 pm
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It's hard to stay consistent during the holidays. I've had beef liver ready to process in my freezer and haven't taken any for almost 3 weeks. I'll try to get around to preparing it in the next few days. I've also been skipping my vitamin D3 during that time. Nemechek recommends avoiding supplements so maybe I should cut out the D3 anyway, but I'm not getting much sun exposure this time of year. I've managed to keep consistent with the Nemechek supplements. After finishing my first 8oz bottle of Nordic Naturals Ultimate Omega, so far I don't mind taking 2 tablespoons, twice the volume of the unconcentrated Nordic Naturals Omega 3. I am getting a higher dose of other fats and preservatives than I would with the concentrated version, but maybe it is worth the reduced cost. I'm also taking 1 tablespoon of inulin, 2 tablespoons of EVOO, one flax oil softgel, and one curcumin capsule (plus magnesium, MK7, and MK4 outside the protocol). My tVNS setup seems to be working. I typically only have time for about one hour per day, divided into two sessions. I can't say that it is helping or hurting. I'll try to increase to the recommended 2-4 hours. Overall, I feel like my fatigue and lightheadedness are marginally improved.

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Posted : 29/11/2018 11:32 pm
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I tried out a new stainless steel, ayurvedic-style tongue scraper for the first time this morning. It definitely seemed to do a better job of getting the gunk off my tongue than just brushing my tongue after my teeth, which moves around the film on the tongue more than actually removing it. I did the tongue scraping first, then brushed my teeth and tongue. I can see how this would help improve oral hygiene by reducing the population of plaque-forming bacteria. I think I will make this part of my morning routine. 

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Posted : 02/12/2018 4:26 pm
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Today I used up the unconcentrated bottle of Nordic Naturals Omega-3, after switching from the concentrated Ultimate Omega formulation. The bottle lasted me just about exactly 2 weeks, so I'm spending about $2.80 per day. While still expensive, this is definitely more affordable than over $4 per day for the concentrated version. It hasn't seemed to bother my system, and I'm still getting the Nemechek recommended 3,000mg of DHA, so I bought another bottle and I'll start it for my second dose later today. I still haven't gotten around to preparing my beef liver. I got a new set of ear clips that I need to modify to use for my tVNS. The original set that I have been using works alright, but it sometimes wants to fall off of my tragus. I hope the new clip will be more secure. I'm still only getting in about 1 hour per day, so I need to find time to fit in at least another hour.

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Posted : 11/12/2018 3:22 pm
Mangas77
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Hi Apollo, do you have before/after pics ?

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Posted : 15/12/2018 8:22 pm
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Posted by: Mangas77

Hi Apollo, do you have before/after pics ?

I have taken some imprecise pictures for myself, but I haven't shared them. The pictures of my face don't show much dramatic change, other than modest improvement to the asymmetry of my nose and occlusion. The intraoral pictures are a little more dramatic because they reflect my wider and more symmetrical upper arch and the reduced crowding of my lower incisors.

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Posted : 15/12/2018 10:23 pm
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I've been following the Nemechek protocol recommendations for olive oil, fish oil, flax seed oil, curcumin, inulin, tVNS, etc. for about 7 weeks. The biggest change is how consistently I've had solid stools in the Bristol 1-4 range. I still occasionally have loose type 5 stool, but in the past I had 5-7 most days, and type 3 and 4 were rare. I think I've also observed a marginal improvement in my energy levels. I haven't had a headache for a while, and I feel less dependent on caffeine. I was talking about taking a course of herbal SIBO treatment or trying to get my hands on some rifaximin after the holidays, but for now I think I will stick with the inulin.

A couple weeks ago, I completed my fourth month of myobrace use. I have about six weeks left to reach my goal of stabilizing for 6 months. Thinking ahead to what I will try next, I've gotten interested in methods to mobilize sutures to facilitate transverse and sagittal expansion. The thread I posted on nasopharyngeal manipulation strategies and the thread on intraoral thumb pulling are the basis for my plan, but I have some new ideas that I want to try before sharing them. I received one of the new tools that I want to try in the mail today. If I like it I will order more.

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Posted : 28/12/2018 11:33 pm
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I've mentioned before how the large adult myobrace is a little too small for my lower intermolar width. I got a new splint activator that I hoped would be slightly wider. Its intercanine width does seem to be a little wider (especially on the bottom), but its intermolar width is about the same. I guess I will start using the new one and hope that it will do a better job moving my lower canines closer to my upper canines. I have about a month and a half left to reach my goal of 6 months stabilizing my palate expansion. I might delay that a little to give the new activator time to take effect, and then slowly phase it out by reducing the number of nights per week I use it, rather than stopping all at once.

This post was modified 3 months ago by Apollo
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Posted : 02/01/2019 5:24 pm
Mangas77
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Okay, I understand !

Btw, would you say that Myobrace really fosters jaw expansion (especially forward growth) ? And if it does, is it as efficient as mewing ?

 

 

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Posted : 02/01/2019 9:46 pm
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Posted by: Mangas77

Okay, I understand !

Btw, would you say that Myobrace really fosters jaw expansion (especially forward growth) ? And if it does, is it as efficient as mewing ?

I don't believe that I have achieved any forward/sagittal expansion. I think activators like the myobrace could encourage some transverse expansion if they have channels wider than your arches. Both the large adult myobrace and my new activator are approximately the same width as my current intermolar width (after using a removable acrylic expander) so they are serving to help stabilize that expansion (and improve symmetry and crowding) but probably aren't encouraging additional intermolar expansion. However, the lower channel on the new activator does seem to be a little wider than my intercanine width, so it might give me some slight expansion in that area. I'm still trying to figure out a strategy for sagittal expansion. I was hoping that correct oral posture alone might give me some forward results once I had enough width to get my tongue into position, but so far that hasn't developed. 

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Posted : 02/01/2019 11:25 pm
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I was able to sleep through the night with my new splint activator last night. The shape around my lower incisors and canines seems to be encouraging better alignment and expansion than the large adult myobrace. I didn't make any adjustments to the lip bumpers like I did with the myobrace, and this morning I found a slight ulcer on the buccal exostosis above my upper left canine. I would have to remove a lot of material to prevent contact with that spot, so I think I'm going to see if my mucosa can get accustomed to it.

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Posted : 03/01/2019 4:57 pm
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I've decided that I like my new activator. My lower incisors are better aligned already. The ulcer above my left canine is healing today, but there's now a little inflamed spot above my left bicuspids. I had intended to use the myobrace A3 through the middle of February, but since I just got this new activator, I think I will phase it out through at least March. I'm currently taking both MK-4 and MK-7 to encourage osteoblasts to stabilize my expansion. I think I will stop taking both forms of K2 in March and be more consistent with my beef liver intake to help tilt the balance toward osteoclasts that might help me mobilize partially ossified sutures. At the same time I intend to implement some of the strategies in the thumb pulling and nasopharyngeal manipulation threads, and explore new appliance options. 

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Posted : 04/01/2019 11:26 pm
Mangas77
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Great dedication ! Do you think Vitamin K supplementation can foster jaw expansion ? Btw, has anyone told you that you look different, or have you noticed increased attention from girls ?

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Posted : 07/01/2019 7:39 pm
Apollo
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Posted by: Mangas77

Great dedication ! Do you think Vitamin K supplementation can foster jaw expansion ? Btw, has anyone told you that you look different, or have you noticed increased attention from girls ?

No one has outright said that I look different/better. I've always gotten some attention from the opposite sex, but I don't think this has increased much over the past year. I suspect I would attract more notice if I achieved some forward expansion. The way I understand it, bone remodeling requires both building up new bone and breaking down old bone. I think of K2 as one vitamin supporting the building side of this balance. This is why I've been supplementing with MK-4 and MK-7 during my months of stabilization after my palate expansion, but I am considering stopping the K2 if/when I undertake another round of expansion and want to disrupt ossification of cranial sutures. I don't think that supplementing with it is going to automatically make your bone structure appear more robust.

Here are some examples of threads about K2 that go into more detail:

https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/vitamin-k2-importance-exaggerated/#

https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/nutrition/#post-4404

https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/where-does-one-get-high-does-of-vitamin-k2-mk4/#

https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/de-ossify-skull-sutures-or-unfuse-the-skull/#

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Posted : 07/01/2019 8:34 pm
Mangas77
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Okay, thank you for taking time to answer me ! I was wondering what you mean exactly by "round of expansion and expansion". And do you think it is really necessary to alternate phases of expansion and recession to achieve durable jaw expansion ?

This post was modified 3 months ago by Mangas77
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Posted : 07/01/2019 9:48 pm
Apollo
(@apollo)
Reputable Member
Posted by: Mangas77

Okay, thank you for taking time to answer me ! I was wondering what you mean exactly by "round of expansion and expansion". And do you think it is really necessary to alternate phases of expansion and recession to achieve durable jaw expansion ?

I just mean that I advanced my removable acrylic expander as far as it would go and then, for the past 5 months, focused on stabilizing that increased palate width (with a myobrace/activator). I haven't had much (if any) recession, but my intermolar width is still below 40mm, so I am considering undertaking another "round" using some kind of expansion appliance, although maybe a different type of appliance that could give me some forward expansion this time (e.g. FAGGA, MSE+FM, etc.).

 

This post was modified 3 months ago 5 times by Apollo
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Posted : 07/01/2019 10:01 pm
Apollo
(@apollo)
Reputable Member

The gap between the mesial edges of my upper canines and the distal edges of my lower canines seems to be reduced. While I think the new activator has given me some expansion of my lower intercanine width, it is also positioning my mandible slightly farther back with a better overjet, whereas the myobrace was positioning the mandible so that the incisors met end-to-end. Both of these factors contribute to reducing that gap. I'm now noticing the gap between the mesial edges of my upper first bicuspids and the distal edges of my lower first bicuspids. I guess maybe as my canines move to the side, the activator might start to work on the bicuspids. Ideally, if my maxilla shifted forward, it would improve intercuspation with the mandibular teeth.

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Posted : 09/01/2019 10:05 pm
adcr
 adcr
(@adcr)
Eminent Member

Hello Apollo, sorry if I missed you saying it, but how do you do those "self-ncr" things you've been talking about? I've been working on taping my mouth at night for the past week or so and want to switch over completely to nose breathing when sleeping or exercising.

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Posted : 12/01/2019 8:11 pm
Apollo
(@apollo)
Reputable Member
Posted by: adcr

Hello Apollo, sorry if I missed you saying it, but how do you do those "self-ncr" things you've been talking about? I've been working on taping my mouth at night for the past week or so and want to switch over completely to nose breathing when sleeping or exercising.

Hi adcr, here's my post about endonasal balloon inflation:

https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/nasopharyngeal-manipulation-techniques/#post-12741

You can follow the "additional links" at the bottom of the post for some reports about self-treatment. It can be a little challenging to figure out, but becomes pretty easy once you get accustomed to it. At one time Progress posted a download for instructions written by bstratt25 on the BTM forum (  http://breakthematrix.createaforum.com/therapies/guide-to-self-ncr-and-face-pulling-anyone/msg2712/#msg2712 ), but he indicated that the link would expire after a month of inactivity, so it might not work anymore. I definitely believe in mouth taping to ensure nasal breathing during sleep. You might find that endonasal balloon inflation helps open up your nasal passages, but don't expect anything miraculous. I guess maybe I'm not in a relaxed enough state while treating myself to get good release of tension. I haven't practiced it consistently for several months. I'm currently experimenting with variations of a couple other techniques in that nasopharyngeal manipulation thread. Let me know if you have any questions.

This post was modified 2 months ago by Apollo
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Posted : 12/01/2019 9:24 pm
Apollo
(@apollo)
Reputable Member

I've used up my bottle of MK-7. Since I have completed over 5 months of stabilization after my palate expansion, I've been planning to stop supplementing K2 and get back to consistent intake of beef liver to help tilt my bone remodeling balance more toward osteoclasts. I still have about 1/3 of a bottle of MK-4 left, but I think I am going to stop both for now. This leaves me taking magnesium and my Nemechek supplements (inulin, fish oil, olive oil, flax oil, and curcumin). I have beef liver in my freezer, but need to prepare it. February 15th will mark 6 months of stabilization. At that point I plan to begin phasing out my activator, decreasing to every other night, then every few nights, then once a week, etc. I have been using a DIY bipolar electrode for tVNS. Last night I made a new one, identical to those used by Dr. Nemechek. It feels about the same, but has a slightly bigger surface area. I'm still waiting to receive some of the items I ordered to experiment with modified nasopharyngeal manipulation techniques.

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Posted : 21/01/2019 4:30 pm
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As you undergo correction in the near future, please consider keeping records for your own sake and for others. Pictures of dental impressions, scans, medical reports reports can be very helpful even with all personally identifying information blocked out.

Your input could help many, many people

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