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This is a public discussion forum. The owners, staff, and users of this website are not engaged in rendering professional services to the individual reader. Do not use the content of this website as an alternative to personal examination and advice from licenced healthcare providers. Do not begin, delay, or discontinue treatments and/or exercises without licenced medical supervision.

My Routine

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Abdulrahman
(@abdulrahman)
500+ Forum Posts

How is your lower arch keeping up with the upper?

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

ReplyQuote
Posted : 04/07/2018 9:15 pm
Hamham25
(@hamham25)
New Member

Apolo can you please guide me with self ncr and face pulling?

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Posted : 04/07/2018 11:43 pm
Apollo
(@apollo)
500+ Forum Posts
Posted by: Abdulrahman

How is your lower arch keeping up with the upper?

My lower arch started out wider than my upper arch except with lingual tipping that prevented cross bite. I've always said that I would be very satisfied if I could get my maxillary arch to correspond to the width of my mandibular arch and upright the lower teeth. My upper arch is still slightly narrower than my lower arch, but it is getting closer, and I think there has been some uprighting of the lower teeth. However, I still have crowding of my lower incisors.

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Topic starter Posted : 05/07/2018 12:38 am
Apollo
(@apollo)
500+ Forum Posts
Posted by: Hamham25

Apolo can you please guide me with self ncr and face pulling?

Hi Hamham,

These aren't practices I incorporate regularly in my routine anymore, but I have tried both. There are many variations of extra-oral traction that commonly get referred to as "face pulling." Allixa started a thread about manual facepulling using only your hands (  https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/frequent-low-tension-facepulling-a-potentially-effective-new-technique-for-adjusting-the-skull-by-hand/ ). Keengo is a proponent of using a grocery bag ( https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/face-pulling/#post-3902 ). I've read about others using a towel, and a contributor on lookism is kind of the originator of this style of biting on something and pulling using a belt ( https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/belt-facepulling-dons-johns/# ). A guy called Plato put out instructions using a helmet to anchor the forces rather than just your hands ( http://jawpain-tmjtreatment.com/ ). I tried something similar to this strategy using my expander to connect to a helmet. In the end, I decided that I didn't like any of these techniques where the teeth bear the force rather than the palate, so I stopped using my rig. Some people have reported success using the manual method, which doesn't load the force onto the teeth, but I haven't been consistent enough to know if it works for me.

I have done a couple consistent rounds of self-ncr/endonasal release and then dabbled with it here and there. I'm confident that I am correctly inflating into the nasopharynx, but I can't honestly say if it has had any effect on me. Maybe I'm not in a relaxed enough state to allow the sutures to separate. Progress posted a guide in the BTM forum (  http://breakthematrix.createaforum.com/therapies/guide-to-self-ncr-and-face-pulling-anyone/15/ ), but I'm unsure if that link is still active.

Let me know if you have any specific questions. Good luck!

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Topic starter Posted : 05/07/2018 1:02 am
Apollo
(@apollo)
500+ Forum Posts

I completed two weeks freezing my grass-fed beef liver below -20 degrees Celsius to kill any parasites and then partially thawed it, cut it into pill-size pieces and refroze them last night. It turns out that taking the dosage that I was originally estimating will be impractical. I would need to take more than 30 pieces per day to get 60 grams and more than 15 pieces to get 30 grams. Blogs about this method recommend 3-8 pieces with the idea that you are taking a couple bites of liver per day. I think some of my pieces might be too big because I had a little trouble swallowing one. I took 3 pieces today as a test to see how I respond. I might try increasing the dose to 5 pieces tomorrow. A couple hours after taking it, I do feel a little more alert than typical, but this could be my imagination. I took the frozen liver after a meal, but it was still a little unsettling to have the frozen pieces in my stomach.

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Topic starter Posted : 05/07/2018 2:20 am
Hamham25
(@hamham25)
New Member

Thank you so so much for your reply. Do you think we can have some chat i can give you my email. Only if you are comfortable with that. Thank you. 

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Posted : 05/07/2018 4:44 am
Apollo
(@apollo)
500+ Forum Posts
Posted by: Hamham25

Thank you so so much for your reply. Do you think we can have some chat i can give you my email. Only if you are comfortable with that. Thank you. 

I would prefer to keep our conversation on the forum so that others can engage with it. For private topics, we can talk on the personal message function.

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Topic starter Posted : 06/07/2018 12:17 am
Apollo
(@apollo)
500+ Forum Posts

Since I have advanced my expander as far as it can go and stopped turning the screw but continue to use it to stabilize my progress, I find that it is relatively easy to fit the transverse width of the expander, but that the height of the expander is becoming harder to fit. There's even some separation between my upper left first molar and the edge of the acrylic, but it seems to be getting harder and harder to fit the height of the expander up into the vault of my palate, such that the wires interfere with occlusion, etc. I suspect that this means my tongue is continuing the process of expansion and leveling out the roof of my mouth. However it also means that the fit of my expander is getting worse and I might not be able to use it for stabilization much longer. But maybe I won't need it if my tongue is working to prevent regression.

I took a few pieces of liver after lunch for the second time today. I cut the pieces in half to make them easier to swallow and this seemed to work better. I usually eat two meals per day, so I am considering taking a few pieces of liver after both meals. Since I stopped taking most of my vitamins, the consistency of my stool seems to have improved, and so far the liver hasn't had any adverse gastrointestinal effects. So I hope this means I might have better nutrient absorption. I think it will probably be a month or more before I am ready to say if this is working for me, but so far I am happy. I am still trying to decide what dose of vitamin D3 to take to balance the vitamin A in the liver. Ideally, I should probably be taking some cod liver oil or some other source of vitamin A since I can't take as much beef liver as I originally thought. If I can take a maximum of about 20 grams of liver per day, that equates to 140 grams of liver per week, which is a pretty good average of the 100-200 grams per week recommendation from the Weston A. Price Foundation article. So I want to take about 10 grams after lunch and 10 grams after dinner every day. This would give me about 3380IU of vitamin A daily. For now I'll plan to take 2000IU vitamin D3 every other day. I'm also continuing to take magnesium, MK-7, and fish oil.

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Topic starter Posted : 06/07/2018 1:07 am
Hamham25
(@hamham25)
New Member

That'd be great but how do i text you in private? Can you send me a text so we can talk?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 06/07/2018 3:25 pm
Apollo
(@apollo)
500+ Forum Posts
Posted by: Apollo 

I would prefer to keep our conversation on the forum so that others can engage with it. For private topics, we can talk on the personal message function.

Posted by: Hamham25

That'd be great but how do i text you in private? Can you send me a text so we can talk?

You sent me a personal message so I guess you figured out how that works. The question you asked is the kind of thing that others might be wondering about or have a better answer than I do. Since it isn't specific to your case or embarrassing, I'm not sure why you want to keep it private rather than open it to the forum where others can engage with the discussion. I sent you a response anyway.

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Topic starter Posted : 06/07/2018 9:55 pm
Hamham25
(@hamham25)
New Member

I thought it would be alot easier to engage with you but you are right let's make it open so other can have their say too. 

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Posted : 07/07/2018 5:17 pm
Apollo
(@apollo)
500+ Forum Posts
Posted by: Hamham25

I thought it would be alot easier to engage with you but you are right let's make it open so other can have their say too. 

Ok, with your permission, I'm going to move our conversation from the personal messages here.

Posted by: Hamham25

Hello Apollo its great to hear your imorovements can you tell me how did you fix your canted smile because i have a canted smile too. Thank you

Posted by: Apollo

My smile is still noticeably canted. However, I think it has improved from expanding my palate, and from practicing rotary chewing in the counter-intuitive direction (  https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/rotation-of-chewing-and-possible-correlation-to-canted-smile/# ). Like any asymmetry, practicing correct oral posture should help an occlusal cant over the long term.

Posted by: Hamham25

Thank you for your reply. After mewing for about two months i guess my canted smile has got better but i wanna fix and make more and more symterical the one side of my upper jaw is sligtly upward and backward giving me a canted smile. Do you think you have the same issue? Also where can i find “guide to proper head posture” do you have any idea

I talk in this post about all three dimensions the maxilla can be tilted ( https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/elements-of-smile-aesthetics-and-craniofacial-dystrophy/#post-2419 ). My right side is angled farther down and back than my left side. As I mentioned above, I've seen improvement of a degree or two from palate expansion, and balancing the direction of my rotary chewing (  https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/rotation-of-chewing-and-possible-correlation-to-canted-smile/# ). Dr. Mew uses the analogy of a crumpled piece of paper which becomes more symmetrical as you stretch it back out to its proper dimensions. I've seen some improvements in the deviation of the bridge of my nose along with the improvements in my occlusal cant. However the bridge of my nose is still a couple millimeters left of center and my occlusal plane is still a few degrees off. Do you know what your current intermolar width is? If your palate is narrow, expanding it using tongue posture or a device would probably improve your occlusal cant. You asked about head posture. I suggest focusing on sustaining a Mckenzie chin tuck. This should improve the efficacy of your oral posture. Dr. Mew has several youtube videos on this topic, and it is discussed extensively here on the forum.

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Topic starter Posted : 08/07/2018 1:19 am
Apollo
(@apollo)
500+ Forum Posts

I found a plaster mask cast of my face that I made during an art class in middle school. I was probably around 13 years old at the time and had braces. When I put the mask up to my face today, the width of the mask still easily fits, but the vertical height of the mask is significantly shorter than my face. It's a very tangible display of how my facial growth since then has mostly been down rather than forward. If I protrude my mandible forward into a class 3 under bite position, it looks like my maxilla could come forward about 5-7mm. However, I don't know if moving the maxilla forward would allow more room for the mandible to swing even farther forward. Either way, it seems like just 5mm of forward maxillary growth would make a significant improvement to my face. This is well within the scale of typical FAGGA results, but I hope to achieve something comparable using tongue pressure. I will continue to monitor my Mew indicator measurement, but I wonder if measuring how far my mandible can protrude beyond the maxilla would be another way to track forward progress.

I've been taking liver for about 5 days now. For the first few days I just took it after lunch. Yesterday I took it after lunch and dinner (I don't eat breakfast). I've been taking three little pieces each time. My culinary scale isn't very accurate at low weights, but I believe this is about 5-8 grams of liver. If I take this twice a day it would be around 10-15 grams of liver per day. This gives me a little more than 2000IU of vitamin A per day. WAPF recommends 100-200 grams of liver per week. So I probably need to increase my dose. Maybe I should take 4 or 5 pieces after every meal. I think I have experienced a little of the anti-fatigue effect but nothing remarkable.

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Topic starter Posted : 09/07/2018 1:29 am
Apollo
(@apollo)
500+ Forum Posts

I've decided to order a large Myobrace A2. I hope this will help me achieve a more symmetrical, roman-shaped maxillary arch and relieve the crowding in my mandibular incisors. I'm going to start with the A2 because the A1 sounds like it is intended for people with worse crowding. I want the large size based on the research I've posted in this thread (  https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/myobrace-effect-and-treatment-time/# ). Although significantly more expensive, I want the authentic Myobrace brand rather than a knock-off to be confident in the function and size. Hopefully the listings I have found are actually the real thing.

A couple weeks since my expander maxed out, it continues to get more challenging to fit in my mouth. However, I don't think this is from relapse. I think it is from continued progress since my oral posture has drastically improved and it seems like I am now able to maintain it during sleep. The intermolar width is more than wide enough to accomodate the expander, but my palate vault has continued to level out leaving less room (fractions of a millimeter) to fit the height of the expander. I think the Myobrace can help stabilize my results while being flexible enough for continued progress and improved symmetry. I'll probably use the Myobrace at night, and continue to use the expander for a few hours each day until I am sure that I won't relapse.

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Topic starter Posted : 13/07/2018 8:06 am
Apollo
(@apollo)
500+ Forum Posts

By all indications, I should be able to fit the large size myobrace. Anecdotes I've read from other users suggest that only those with a very narrow palate would require the regular size. The picture I found of what is supposed to be an authentic large myobrace shows an intermolar width that should fit my expanded palate. However, I am still a little concerned that the left side of my arch is more curved than the right side. I am hoping that the myobrace can help correct this asymmetry, but it is possible that my squarer right side won't fit within the arch of the channel, even if the intermolar width is wide enough. I'll just have to wait and see if it fits when it arrives.

I've increased to 4 pieces of liver after lunch and dinner for several days now. I think I will add one more piece after both meals for 10 pieces total. As a point of comparison, I looked at the dosage on Ancestral Supplements brand of desiccated grass-fed beef liver capsules. They recommend 30 grams of beef liver per day. This is in the range of what I was originally targeting based on the WAPF guidelines. However, I estimated that I would need to take 15 pieces of liver per day to get that amount (based on my culinary scale, which is imprecise at small values). That would require taking 7-8 pieces after every meal. I wouldn't mind swallowing that much each time, but I would run out much sooner and have to repeat the arduous process of preparing the frozen liver pieces more frequently. For now I'll plan to increase my dose to 5 pieces after both meals, for about 20 grams per day.

So far the most apparent effect has been the drastic improvement in the consistency of my bowel movements. In the past I have struggled with frequent diarrhea and have tried many different dietary changes and supplements with varying degrees of success. However, since I have been taking the liver my stools are consistently in the 2-4 range on the Bristol Stool Scale whereas I was usually in the 4-6 range in the past. 

Image result for bristol stool chart wikipedia

It's too early to say, but I think there might also be some improvement in my keratosis pilaris. It is hard to say if my energy levels have changed, and even harder to know if it is helping with bone remodeling.

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Topic starter Posted : 14/07/2018 2:58 am
Apollo
(@apollo)
500+ Forum Posts

Just to help me keep track of the 2 weeks in the freezer to kill parasites, I'm noting here that I purchased more grass-fed beef liver from a local farm today. They don't always have it in stock so I wanted to get more while I could, although I probably have more than enough left from the first batch to last me two weeks. Maybe I will increase my dose again from the 5 pieces I am currently taking twice a day to 6 pieces. I think it is good that I have been gradually increasing my dose to give my body time to adjust and eliminate any stores of synthetic vitamin A (that I used to take in a multivitamin) to avoid excess. Ultimately, I don't think I will take any more than 15 little pieces per day. This comment on the Amazon listing for Ancestral Supplements desiccated grass-fed beef liver is informative about how they determined their recommended dose: "1 serving of Grassfed Beef Liver (6 capsules) is equivalent to 1oz of raw undefatted beef liver. With that said, 4 servings (24 capsules) of Grassfed Beef Liver is equivalent to 4oz of raw beef liver. Nutrition authorities like Chris Masterjohn (of Mastering Nutrition) and the WAPF recommend 1 to 2 servings of liver per week (or) a total of 6 to 8oz per week. To achieve this amount with Grassfed Beef Liver, simply consume the recommended daily serving of 6 capsules per day." They recommend 1 ounce per day which is just under 30 grams, and I think my pieces are on average around 2 grams per piece, so I would need to take 15 pieces per day to get 30 grams.

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Topic starter Posted : 17/07/2018 1:28 am
Apollo
(@apollo)
500+ Forum Posts

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the role of nutrition. Here's a recent conversation from my private messages for anyone interested, posted with permission:

Posted by: Matt

Hi there. I came across the thread you posted in regarding vitamin k2. I’ve recently brought some supplements (k2 and also a vitamin D supplement to balance it out with the k2) and I read that k2 can be bad for bone development when using.

I plan on taking one capsule of each vitamin a day. The k2 contains 200mcg and the vitamin D3 contains 3000 in. With the additional added onto these numbers with eating dairy foods and eggs.

Will this be bad for bone growth?

Thanks appreciate it!

P.S. Do you know any supplement which could possibly help with bone growth (height). I thought vitamin k2 would assist, but from what I read it looks unlikely. Hope your mewing journey is all well!

Posted by: Apollo

Hi Matt,

I’ve posted about my understanding of which vitamins are involved in bone remodeling in a few nutrition threads on the forum, so I’m not sure which thread you are referencing. In short: if you want to stabilize, strengthen, or build up bones, you would try to activate osteoblasts, whereas if you want to make bone more malleable you would try to activate osteoclasts. I aim for a balance. I think we want to avoid both deficiency and excess of vitamins on either side of the balance to promote bone remodeling. For example, if you’re goal is increased height or bone density, you might tip the scale more toward the osteoblast side. I think this is the case for people who start mega dosing on K2. It might make it harder to change the shape of the bones, but it could make them bigger and stronger overall. So calcium, vitamin D, vitamin K2, magnesium, all seem to be important for building bones. The only dietary counterweight I know of to break down bone is vitamin A which is a PTH cofactor activating osteoclasts. However, the type of vitamin A seems to be important because our bodies are inefficient at converting plant-based beta carotene, and synthetic forms can accumulate and cause side effects. Beef liver and natural cod liver oil are good sources of the bioavailable renitol form of vitamin A. I would start there and then try to balance the other fat soluble vitamins D and K.

Currently, I am aiming for about 5,000IU of vitamin A per day from grass-fed beef liver. I also take 2,000IU of vitamin D3 every 2 days, and just 100 mcg of the MK-7 form of vitamin K2. I think I get some of the MK-4 form of vitamin K2 from pasture-raised eggs and butter, but I have considered adding an MK-4 supplement to my regimen, which has a shorter half life than MK-7 but is the active form that our bodies convert MK-7 to, so it seems to be more potent. I also take 200mg of magnesium daily, along with fish oil.

Do you mind if I copy and paste this conversation into the thread about my routine for anyone else who is interested to read?

Posted by: Matt

Go for it thanks for the info!

Posted by: Matt

I have also ordered a supplement to help my zinc levels to improve that deficiency . This might be a bit off topic, but is it important to have enough magnesium while taking these supplements? I don’t think I will buy a magnesium supplement, but I will try and eat more magnesium foods. I’ve heard bananas are a good source?

Posted by: Apollo

I think magnesium plays an important role in bone remodeling on the osteoblast side of the balance. There are many dietary sources of magnesium, but I find it hard to be consistent enough with food sources alone, and much of today’s produce comes from mineral-depleted soil, so I supplement. In addition to the bananas you mentioned, I think of greens like spinach, broccoli, asparagus, avocado etc. Some dairy and fish contain a good amount of magnesium. I mostly avoid nuts and legumes, but I guess they are also reliable sources.

Posted by: Matt

Interesting! Because I will be taking a zinc supplement. Is it important to take another supplement to balance out the minerals in my body? Sort of like the vitamin K/D combo?

Also would it be fine to take all the supplements at the same time after an evening meal?

Thanks!

Posted by: Apollo

I’ve read that zinc and copper act as antagonists and work together in a superoxide dismutase enzyme which serves as an antioxidant. So it is important to balance their ratio. Combination zinc and copper supplements are available. I am getting more than the recommended daily intake of copper from the beef liver I consume, so maybe I should be supplementing with zinc too, especially since I don’t have a lot of dietary sources. I know zinc shouldn’t be taken at the same time as calcium or iron because they decrease absorption, but some people find that zinc causes nausea when taken on an empty stomach.

Posted by: Matt

Thanks once again for the informative reply! I can only find a combination of zinc and magnesium. Does magnesium serve the same purpose as copper? Also do any of these minerals contain iron?

Sorry for the many questions, I have no knowledge in this area and I am fascinated to find out more.

Thanks!

Posted by: Apollo

No, copper and magnesium aren’t interchangeable. Any supplements containing iron would list it separately on the label.

Posted by: Matt

Hi again. I have been doing a lot of research on the internet on what supplements are most beneficial to take for the body to help support bone growth and for supporting and maintaining the bones. I’ve heard that taking Vitamin D3 and K2 can slow down the mewing process, although I am just going to go ahead with taking the supplements anyway. Here are the bunch I have chosen:

Vitamin D3
Vitamin K2
Zinc and Copper combination
Magnesium
Glusamine and chondroitin

The reason why I have chose Vitamin D3 and K2 is to help bone growth. I hardly get any Vitamin D due to living in the UK (during the later part of the year there is hardly any sun) and I also work indoors so I get no sunlight. I am using Vitamin K2 to balance out the calcium absorption into bones and blood.

I have chose the Zinc and Copper combination supplement due to the benefits of Zinc on hair, skin and other advantages. I chose the combination due to the importance of copper being balanced out with Zinc.

Magnesium is another one I chose due to also the benefits on the bones and even the heart.

Lastly I am going to take glusamine and chondroitin due to it’s benefits on joints and will help maintain my bones.

I’ve been told it’s best to take these supplements just before/after a meal? Also would it be safe to take these supplements at the same time?

Thanks for your time and help!

(P.S. I remembered you said Zinc shouldn’t be taken at the same time as calcium or iron)

Posted by: Apollo

These sound like good choices. Of course the longer your list of supplements gets the more expensive it becomes. The rational that D3 and K2 can slow bone remodeling is that they are building up the bone, making it less malleable. Ideally, I would add a good animal-based source of vitamin A, like cod liver oil or beef liver. Vitamin A is a parathyroid hormone cofactor so it would enhance osteoclast activity, breaking down bone, and balancing the osteoblast activity from vitamins like D3 and K2. What form and dose of K2 have you decided to take? Right now I am only taking 100mcg of Mk-7, but I am considering adding a higher dose of Mk-4. For the supplements you listed, the only interaction to worry about that I know of is the one you mentioned with the absorption of zinc when taken with calcium or iron, so you might wait a few hours to take it if your meal had foods high in those vitamins. Another consideration is the half life of the supplement and potentially dosing multiple times per day. For example, the half life of Mk-4 is relatively short. If you were taking it in drop form, you could take it twice a day at a lower dose rather than once a day at a higher dose. Magnesium is supposed to have a calming effect so you could take it in the evening after dinner to help you get ready to sleep, however some forms of magnesium increase GI motility so you could divide it into a morning and evening dose to avoid side effects.

Posted by: Matt

Thanks for the info! I will let you know what form and dose I am going to be taking. I’ve read some research that Vitamin A can increase mortality, so it sort of put me off the idea of taking the supplement. But most of these researches don’t have much evidence behind it I don’t think.

Posted by: Apollo

Vitamin A excess is a real danger, and there is some dispute about the recommended daily intake. However, I’m pretty convinced that the synthetic forms found in most vitamins are more likely to accumulate in lipophylic tissues leading to toxicity. Whereas natural sources of animal-based vitamin A (like fermented cod liver oil or beef liver) have different functional groups attached which make them more bioavailable and require higher doses to build up and cause side effects. Plant-based sources like beta-carotene are inefficiently converted to the active form of vitamin A. You could check the Weston A. Price Foundation website for more details about this debate.

Posted by: Matt

Thanks! I am going to look up what foods contain a good source of Vitamin A. What type of foods do you usually eat to gain your daily Vitamin intake?

Posted by: Apollo

I take a small portion of grass-fed beef liver daily, but you could eat it for one or two meals per week and get the weekly 100-200 grams recommended by the Weston A. Price Foundation (  https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/food-features/the-liver-files/ ). You could also try pate or liverwurst. Many people don’t like the taste of liver, but other animal sources like dairy and eggs don’t give you as much vitamin A in a serving. Another option is desiccated liver pills from companies like Vital Proteins or Ancestral Supplements, but these can get expensive.

Posted by: Matt

I will look into further into different intakes of Vitamin A. Thanks!

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Topic starter Posted : 22/07/2018 2:34 am
Apollo
(@apollo)
500+ Forum Posts

The myobrace A2 I ordered should have arrived last week, and there haven't been any updates to the tracking, so I am getting impatient.

I cut the next batch of grass-fed beef liver into little pieces today after more than 2 weeks in the freezer. I still have a few days left from the first batch.

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Topic starter Posted : 02/08/2018 9:11 am
Apollo
(@apollo)
500+ Forum Posts

I wrote about my first impressions of the myobrace here:

https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/myobrace-effect-and-treatment-time/paged/2/#post-6355

Since that post, I have adjusted the height of the upper lip bumpers so they no longer rub against my buccal exostoses. With that issue resolved, my upper teeth feel like they fit the channel easily. I don't really feel any force from the device on my upper arch, so it's not really clear to me how it could expand the arch, or improve symmetry. Maybe the forces are very subtle but will have an effect over the long term. In contrast, I can clearly feel the force realigning the minimal crowding in my mandibular incisors, and maybe some force uprighting my lingually tipped mandibular molars and premolars. The pressure on one misaligned mandibular incisor is pretty intense. I've worn the device for a few hours during the day to get used to it, but with this level of discomfort I doubt that I will be able to sleep through the night.

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Topic starter Posted : 07/08/2018 8:10 am
Apollo
(@apollo)
500+ Forum Posts

As expected, I couldn't get comfortable enough to sleep with the myobrace in place, so I've been trying to make up some hours during the day today. The instructions say "may fall out at night while sleeping in initial stages of treatment. If this happens increase daytime use." Once my misaligned lower incisor comes back in place, it should become much more comfortable. For now, my upper teeth seat all of the way into their channel, but I don't press the lower teeth all of the way in. This helps reduce the pain, but it is also less stable without closing my bite all of the way. I sometimes find myself engaging my lip muscles to hold in the device. I'm also still having some trouble with my tongue posture. There is a tendency to want to let the tip of the tongue extend down to the level of the lower teeth with the middle of the tongue against the tag, and the sides of my tongue rub on the edges of the plastic. I might try to smooth off the mold seams. In short, this feels like it could help realign my crowding, but I'm not sure if it is helping to maintain correct oral posture, or further expanding my intermolar width. My intermolar width is currently just below 40mm. It is good that I ordered the large, but I'm amazed that they don't offer a larger size. I don't think anyone with a wider palate than me would get much benefit from the large A2. 

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Topic starter Posted : 08/08/2018 12:42 am
Apollo
(@apollo)
500+ Forum Posts

I couldn't sleep with the myobrace again last night, but I'm trying to get as many daytime hours as I can. It is feeling a little less painful, and I am often inserting my lower teeth all of the way into their channel now. The brace holds my mandible out a little farther than my normal resting position, and I can see how the device might help people with malocclusion. The pain is almost exclusively in my one misaligned lower incisor, but I also had a little achiness in my lower molars at lunch today.

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Topic starter Posted : 09/08/2018 1:51 am
Apollo
(@apollo)
500+ Forum Posts

I'm using the myobrace as much as possible during the day again today after taking it out to sleep last night. It was feeling much looser and easier to fit my lower teeth into their channel by the end of the day yesterday. I've had some orthodontic-type pain while chewing, but nothing intolerable. I find that my lips get dry when I have the myobrace in. I suspect I might be able to start using it during sleep within a few days. It probably would have been easier to sleep with right away if I started with the A1, rather than the A2, but I think it's probably worth the adjustment pains to cut the expense in half. However, for anyone with more than minimal crowding, I think I would recommend the A1. It still feels a little harder to correctly position my tongue with the myobrace in place, but interestingly, I think it feels easier to fit my tongue on my palate without the device than it did only a few days ago. When I press my tongue up on the tag, I hear the shifting sound in my right ear, and occasionally a faint sound in my left ear.

I might try a self endonasal release session soon with the myobrace in place to see if it has any impact. I also want to resume my breathing exercises. I think I will start back at the beginning and gradually increase the intensity and duration as recommended in the instructions.

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Topic starter Posted : 10/08/2018 1:58 am
Apollo
(@apollo)
500+ Forum Posts

I weighed a sample of the new batch of liver pieces I cut up last week. Like the last batch, they seem to be about 10 grams for every 5 pieces or about 2 grams/piece. I have been gradually increasing my dose up to 6 pieces twice a day for a total of about 24 grams per day for the past few weeks. I think there have been some modest effects on my skin, nails, hair, and maybe on my energy level. Ideally, I'd like to get my dose up to 30 grams per day. I would have to take 3 more pieces a day to reach that amount. For now I will increase my dose to 7 pieces twice a day which would give me about 28 grams.

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Topic starter Posted : 11/08/2018 12:34 am
Apollo
(@apollo)
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I still haven't been able to sleep with the myobrace, but it is getting much easier to use. The left side of my misaligned lower incisor is coming into position but the right side is still behind the adjacent tooth. I'm starting to feel some achiness in other teeth, especially my lingually tipped lower molars. I've been using the myobrace for about 5 days. I hope within the first month of use that I'll be able to sleep through the night with it in place. So far, I'm glad I purchased it. I think it would have to be a little bigger to get significant expansion out of it, and I'm not sure it is doing much to promote forward changes, but I feel like it will help stabilize the intermolar width I gained with the removable expander, and improve the symmetry and alignment of my arches. It doesn't seem like it will do much to improve my flattened smile arc.

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Topic starter Posted : 12/08/2018 3:39 am
Apollo
(@apollo)
500+ Forum Posts

I've had fatigue and headaches of varying severity for the past few days. It's possible the achiness from the myobrace is contributing to the headaches, but I think my sleep has been disrupted and I've caught myself snoring more frequently than typical. Even though I haven't been sleeping with the myobrace, I suspect the impact from wearing it during the day has changed my oral posture during sleep. I will try to be better about remaining on my side during sleep. Maybe I will try Ronny Ead's trick of sleeping with a backpack with basketballs inside to prevent rolling onto the back. I also wonder if restarting my breathing exercises would help.

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Topic starter Posted : 13/08/2018 1:30 am
Apollo
(@apollo)
500+ Forum Posts

I'm feeling a little better today. When I ordered the myobrace A2, I didn't have any intention of ever getting the A3, which is made of firmer polyurethane, and designed for fine tuning the alignment of the teeth, and posture of the tongue. After the A2 arrived and I found that it isn't really any wider than my current intermolar width, I'm starting to think that the firmer plastic might ultimately help eek out a millimeter or two of expansion. I am debating ordering the A3 to have on hand for when my lower incisors are uncrowded and my lingually tipped lower molars are uprighted. I wish I could order a slightly larger Soulet Besombes trainer, but all of the sources I can find online only sell to professionals.

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Topic starter Posted : 14/08/2018 2:57 am
Apollo
(@apollo)
500+ Forum Posts

I've reported about the deviation in the bridge of my nose and how it has gone from around 4mm left of center to a little less than 2mm left of center during the course of my expansion. I don't think I've seen much improvement since then. Tonight I noticed in the mirror that simultaneously raising my eyebrows and scrunching my nose causes little folds of skin to stretch on either side of the bridge of my nose near the corners of my eyes. On the left side, this fold of skin is about 1mm wide. On the right side of my nose, it is about 3mm wide. This is consistent with the 2mm deviation. I'm still not sure, but these flaps of skin support my theory that I don't need to shift over the whole bridge of the nose 2mm, but instead the left side should stay where it is while the right nasal bone and the right frontal process of the maxilla shift over 2mm, making the bridge of my nose wider overall. My nose does look kind of spindly, so I like the idea of it getting thicker as it improves in symmetry. I think I'll need to achieve more expansion of my intermolar width to get more improvement in the deviation of my nose.

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Topic starter Posted : 14/08/2018 8:10 am
Apollo
(@apollo)
500+ Forum Posts

After 8 days of use, I was able to sleep through the night with the myobrace in place for the first time last night. I woke up several times and noticed that I wasn't biting together, but at least I never had to take it out to get comfortable. I took a more accurate measurement of the intermolar width of the myobrace (adult large) at the level where my first molars sit rather than at the back where my second molars sit. It looks like it might be closer to 37mm at that point rather than the 40mm I initially reported. This concerns me that the device might actually be narrower than my current intermolar width, especially on my lower arch. I'm really at a loss for why myobrace doesn't make an extra large size. However, it is definitely wider at the level of the intercanine width, so maybe it is worth the trade off to get some expansion in the front of my palate and make my arches more symmetric.

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Topic starter Posted : 16/08/2018 9:05 am
Apollo
(@apollo)
500+ Forum Posts

I bought more beef liver today. I'm just making note of this here to help me keep track of the two weeks in the freezer. I'm worried that my current batch will run out before the new liver is ready. Another nutritional supplement I keep coming across recently is collagen peptides. In the past, I've explored supplementing with beef gelatin, which isn't soluble in cold liquids. Collagen peptides, or hydrolyzed collagen have the same amino acid profile as the collagen in gelatin, but it is broken down into smaller pieces making it soluble in cold liquids. Bone growth might be facilitated by ample supply of the amino acids needed to build the collagen in its extracellular matrix. It also helps with skin, hair, nails and joints. There seems to be some evidence for the importance of the collagen being in the hydrolyzed form for better absorption and effect. So maybe the peptide powder is more beneficial than consuming bone broth or gelatin. For now, it's too expensive for my budget. I make a fair amount of bone broth (mostly for digestive health), but it sounds like I would need to take much more for systemic effects. What do you think of Collagen Peptides?

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Topic starter Posted : 17/08/2018 6:14 am
Apollo
(@apollo)
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I've now slept three nights with the myobrace. It seems like my teeth are staying farther down in their channels than the first night. The left side of my misaligned lower incisor is starting to line up with the next tooth, but the right side feels like it is now sticking out farther. The myobrace encourages my mandible to sit slightly more forward. When I take it out in the morning, I generally maintain that new relative position between my upper and lower arches, but when I chew on something it brings me back closer to my old occlusion. I think my lower canines need to shift laterally if they are going to hold the new occlusion. Hopefully this will happen with time and create more space for my lower incisors. I noticed while brushing my teeth this morning that I have a purpura on my buccal mucosa near my second molars on the left side. I guess this is from the back edge of the myobrace rubbing or putting pressure there, but probably isn't anything to worry about.

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Topic starter Posted : 18/08/2018 1:01 am
Sot liked
Apollo
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While flossing this evening, I noticed that the contacts between my upper central and lateral incisors seem to be more open. The gaps are visibly noticeable only on close inspection. I had similar spacing during my expansion until I removed the acrylic from the anterior portion of the expander. The midline contact between the two central incisors is tighter but still easy to pass floss between. I assume the extra space is a result of the myobrace. I guess it is achieving some expansion of my upper intercanine width. I hope the mandibular intercanine width is also expanding, but so far I still have one lower central incisor crowded out of alignment. The shifting sounds when I press up on my palate with my tongue have been almost constant today. I take that as a good sign that the sutures are releasing and maybe I will get some adjustments.

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Topic starter Posted : 18/08/2018 7:27 am
Apollo
(@apollo)
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I woke up last night from a dream where I was chewing a piece of candy to realize that I was actually chewing on my myobrace. There doesn't seem to be any damage to the plastic, but it makes me wonder how much chewing I am doing in my sleep with this device between my teeth and if that will carry over when I finish using it. I think there might be less of a tendancy to chew if I could keep my teeth firmly together in the channels, but because they don't fit well yet my bite wants to open and close. I have to admit that I have cut back on gum chewing since the myobrace arrived and I have been wearing it during the day when I might otherwise have gum in my mouth. I don't know if getting back to a consistent gum chewing routine would make my chewing on the myobrace during sleep better or worse.

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Topic starter Posted : 19/08/2018 2:28 am
Meowxilla liked
Apollo
(@apollo)
500+ Forum Posts

I had a terrible headache yesterday, so I didn't complete any of my routine. I think the headache was caused by interrupted sleep the night before. I really believe most of my health issues would resolve if I could just get consistently restful sleep.

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Topic starter Posted : 21/08/2018 12:43 am
Apollo
(@apollo)
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It's been about 6 months since I first started using my palate expander and got serious about my routine. I thought this would be a good time to reevaluate my progress and priorities going forward. Facial asymmetry and upper airway resistance were my main motivating factors. When I look in the mirror today, I am much happier with my appearance. I had already achieved some modest progress from oral posture before I began using the palate expander, but my symmetry has significantly improved since then. At its worst, my dental midline was almost 4mm right of center, but was closer to 2mm right of center when I started using the expander. It is now essentially centered, except for the tilt of my occlusal cant. When I started using my expander, the bridge of my nose was about 4mm left of center. It is now about 2mm left of center. This means that the discrepancy between my dental midline and the bridge of my nose went from about 6mm to about 2mm in less than half a year. This change alone makes my face look much more harmonious. I've estimated that my occlusal cant went from about 4 degress higher on the left to about 3 degrees off when I started using the expander, and is now maybe 2 degrees off. It is improved, but still relatively noticeable if you are looking for it. It seems like the cant is worse in my anterior teeth than my posterior teeth. My intermolar width went from around 34mm to a little over 39mm, an increase of almost 6mm. My smile looks broader with reduced buccal corridors. The right side of my upper arch is still less rounded than the left. I haven't achieved any discernible forward changes, and I gave up on extra-oral traction when I realized how the force was loaded onto my teeth rather than the palate.
 
I plan to focus the next several months on stabilizing my progress. I am using a myobrace large A2 every night. I hope that it will help me prevent relapse, relieve the minor crowding of my lower incisors, upright my lower molars, and make the shape of my arches more symmetrically rounded. I am concerned that it seems to be a little smaller than my intermolar width, but does seem to be wider than my intercanine width, so at least I feel like I am getting some anterior expansion. I wish they made one that was a couple millimeters wider. I will reevaluate when I feel like I have gotten everything I can out of the myobrace. I would like to find a way to further reduce my occlusal cant and deviated nose, but I think this would require significantly more expansion. Since I'm currently a little above 39mm intermolar width, I'd like to get a least another 5 or 6mm lateral expansion. My tongue looks like it could fill out another 10mm or more. Based on visualizing where my maxilla should be by protruding my mandible, I'd also like to achieve at least 5mm of forward expansion. Maybe now that my tongue posture is improved, I will begin to expand in both dimensions. If not, I will explore other options for appliances once I have finished using the myobrace. I'd like to start seeing more prominent cheekbones and cheek hollows, and most importantly to feel like I am breathing and sleeping better.
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Topic starter Posted : 22/08/2018 1:37 am
Neigh liked
Apollo
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The myobrace has brought my misaligned lower incisor close enough to the correct position that my old lower essix retainer (which covers just the front 10 teeth) will now fit comfortably. I haven't used this retainer in more than 10 years. I am considering if it would be a good idea to use this retainer for some hours during the day while I am not using the myobrace to help speed up the realignment of that incisor. All of the other teeth seem to fit the retainer exactly, and it's just the one incisor which feels some minor pressure to shift. I guess I'll try it and see how it goes.

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Topic starter Posted : 23/08/2018 12:06 am
Apollo
(@apollo)
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Several of my toenails have horizontal ridges. I guess these are Beau's Lines, which have a variety of causes but are supposed to reflect a temporary cessation of cell division in the nail matrix. They are most prominent on my first and second toes on both feet, and are now about 3mm beyond the cuticle. If my toenails have been growing at around the average rate in healthy populations of 0.05mm/day, the problem would have occurred a couple months ago. I started taking a small portion of beef liver daily on July 4 (just over 7 weeks ago). I wonder if this has any connection.

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Topic starter Posted : 24/08/2018 7:45 am
Apollo
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500+ Forum Posts

I had a dream last night that I went to brush my teeth in the morning, and saw in the mirror that my mandible had become extremely retruded. Maybe I'm getting a little too obsessive about facial form. I've actually noticed that the 1 or 2 mm forward that the myobrace holds my mandible makes it noticeably more pronounced. It's surprising how apparent such small changes can be. However, after a while, especially if I chew on something, my mandible slips back closer to it's old occlusion, but I suspect gradually over time it will stay closer and closer to the position of the brace.

I've been using the myobrace for 19 days and sleeping through the night with it for 11 days. Initially I was trying to maximize my number of daytime hours since I couldn't comfortably sleep with it, but now I mostly only wear it for a couple hours before bed and then overnight. I think I am chewing on it during sleep less than I was initially now that the teeth are better able to seat in their channels. For the past couple days, I've also been using my lower essix retainer from my adolescent braces for a couple hours each day. It's easier to go out of the house with the clear retainer on just my front 10 lower teeth than to have the whole big purple mouthpiece which prevents me from talking. When I first put it in, I feel some pressure on my one misaligned lower incisor but that passes quickly. The mesial side of the incisor is still pointing out, but it seems to be getting closer to fitting every day, and the distal side now stays in line on its own.

I am going to run out of beef liver before the next batch is ready. I have to wait five more days and only have enough left for a couple more days. I guess I will reduce my dose to make it last a little longer. 

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Topic starter Posted : 26/08/2018 2:14 am
Apollo
(@apollo)
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It is getting harder to bring my mandible back into it's former occlusion with the posterior teeth touching. I'm not sure if this is good or bad. It means the relation between my incisors is staying closer to where the myobrace positions them, but it leaves some separation between my back teeth. I can imagine that this would close if my lower molars and bicuspids upright from their current lingually-tipped positions. If I try to force my mandible into the old occlusion with the molars touching, it feels like it is uncomfortably compressing my TMJ. I guess I will try to get back to incorporating more gum chewing into my routine.

I've gained about 10 to 15 pounds since I injured my back at work several months ago. Now that it is feeling mostly back to normal, I want to be more active. I'm thinking mostly walking, bodyweight resistance strengthening exercises, and stretching with a focus on my posture. I used up the last of this batch of beef liver today, and I still have a couple days to wait until the next batch will be ready. I'm not worried about skipping a couple days, but I think I will also hold off on taking my vitamin D until I'm getting the vitamin A from the liver.

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Topic starter Posted : 29/08/2018 12:54 am
Shane
(@shane)
10+ Forum Posts

wanted to make sure you don't feel alone over here 🙂

FYI I follow primal nutrition, and take similar supplements. I'll share what I am currently taking for my teeth:

Perfect Desiccated Liver - Grass Fed Undefatted Argentine Beef Liver (120 capsules, 750mg per capsule, Net wt 90g) (Pack of 3)

Apagard Tooth Polish Royal 135g toothpaste, Direct from Japan

Freeda Kosher Calcium Phosphate Powder 16 OZ. (for brushing)

Sensodyne Repair & Protect Whitening Toothpaste 75ml (English Packaging) (supplemental / quick brushing)

Eco-Dent Daily Rinse Ultimate Essential Mouth Care, Spicy-Cool Cinnamon, 8 fl oz (237 ml) (Pack of 2) (if I ever need to use mouth wash - aka make out sessions)

Geckone Sonicare Toothbrush Heads, 8-Pack, Bamboo Charcoal Infused Bristles, Individual Caps Included, Premium Replacement Brush Heads Compatible with

Thorne Research - Vitamin D/K2 Liquid (Metered Dispenser) - Dietary Supplement with Vitamins D3 and K2 to Support Healthy Bones and Muscles - 1 fluid ounce (30 mL)

And finally:

ROSITA REAL FOODS EXTRA-VIRGIN COD LIVER OIL

https://www.nourishingworld.com/rosita-real-foods-extra-virgin-cod-liver-oil/

WALKABOUT AUSTRALIAN EMU OIL ~ LIQUID

https://www.nourishingworld.com/walkabout-australian-emu-oil-liquid/

 

I will likely pare these down once I figure out which ones work/work best.

I love beef liver pate, but it is a pain to make so I just use those capsules.

 

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Posted : 02/09/2018 4:52 am
Apollo liked
Apollo
(@apollo)
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Thanks for stopping by and for your recommendations @shane! From your list, I think we share a lot of the same philosophies, but unfortunately, I don't have the budget to experiment with so many products right now. I might pick out a couple I wasn't familiar with to try.

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Topic starter Posted : 03/09/2018 7:22 am
FioraLaurent
(@fioralaurent)
10+ Forum Posts

Congrats for your consistent work and not giving up on it  

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Posted : 03/09/2018 8:40 am
Shane
(@shane)
10+ Forum Posts
Posted by: Apollo

Thanks for stopping by and for your recommendations @shane! From your list, I think we share a lot of the same philosophies, but unfortunately, I don't have the budget to experiment with so many products right now. I might pick out a couple I wasn't familiar with to try.

My recommendation would be to start with this or the cheaper version:

Apagard Tooth Polish Royal 135g toothpaste, Direct from Japan

Within a few brushings, you will notice a big difference (unless you have super white teeth). It is one of the few things I think I will every day until there is something better.

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Posted : 03/09/2018 9:40 am
FioraLaurent
(@fioralaurent)
10+ Forum Posts

Where did you find the object you used for fix the situation where the upper lip bumpers put uncomfortable pressure on the bony exostoses pls because im having the same problem :/

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Posted : 07/09/2018 2:53 am
Apollo
(@apollo)
500+ Forum Posts
Posted by: FioraLaurent

Where did you find the object you used for fix the situation where the upper lip bumpers put uncomfortable pressure on the bony exostoses pls because im having the same problem :/

Sorry for the delayed response, @fioralaurent. I've been away from the forum for a few days.

I used a dremel tool to make the adjustments to my Myobrace.

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Topic starter Posted : 12/09/2018 8:48 am
Apollo
(@apollo)
500+ Forum Posts
Posted by: Shane
 
My recommendation would be to start with this or the cheaper version:

Apagard Tooth Polish Royal 135g toothpaste, Direct from Japan

Within a few brushings, you will notice a big difference (unless you have super white teeth). It is one of the few things I think I will every day until there is something better.

Thanks for the recommendation! I've been looking for something to improve remineralization and strengthen my enamel. I consume a lot of acidic foods and beverages. I've debated making my own DIY tooth powder, but I might give this a try. I'm also considering taking 5mg of MK-4 daily in addition to my current 100 mcg of MK-7.

 

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Topic starter Posted : 13/09/2018 7:43 am
Apollo
(@apollo)
500+ Forum Posts

Posted by: Apollo

I've been using the myobrace for a little over one month every night with some minor improvement to the minimal crowding of my lower incisors, and it also seems to be positioning my mandible slightly more forward. I was hoping it would help upright my lingually tipped lower molars but so far I haven't seen much change in that regard. I am now debating ordering the large A3. The myobrace website says that the A2 "provides arch development" whereas the A3 "provides excellent tooth alignment and retention." I am wondering if the firmer material of the A3 would yield faster results overall if it can be tolerated, or if the A2 is actually better for reshaping the arches and it would disadvantage me to switch to the A3 too soon. In other words might the softer material of the A2 induce more skeletal changes to help with my arch curve and symmetry, and I should wait several more months before switching to the firmer A3 to focus on dental alignment?

Although I've been using the myobrace for a little longer, the end of this week will mark one month that I've been sleeping through the night with it in place. When I started, my left lower central incisor was misaligned behind the adjacent teeth. Now both of my lower central incisors sit a little ahead of the lateral incisors. I suspect after a while the lateral incisors will move out to align with the central incisors followed by the canines and hopefully my lingually tipped molars will begin to upright. As I mentioned in the post quoted above, I am considering ordering the A3 so that the firmer material might expedite this process. However, most schedules I have seen recommend using the A2 for around 6 months before moving on to the the A3. I think I could probably handle the intensity of the A3, but I wonder if the flexibility of the A2 is better for reshaping the curve of the arches since the website says it "provides arch development" whereas the A3 "provides excellent tooth alignment and retention," and bone is supposed to respond better to light sustained forces rather than hard forces. I might go ahead and order it to try out and have on hand whenever I am ready to move on.

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Topic starter Posted : 13/09/2018 11:06 am
Shane
(@shane)
10+ Forum Posts

my dentist said as long as your teeth are moving and you are seeing results, there is no need to move to the next stage. take that for what it's worth.

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Posted : 13/09/2018 9:39 pm
Apollo
(@apollo)
500+ Forum Posts
Posted by: Shane

my dentist said as long as your teeth are moving and you are seeing results, there is no need to move to the next stage. take that for what it's worth.

Thanks Shane! I guess I will stick with the A2 for now. I don't know that I want to devote 6 months to the A2 and another 6 months to the A3. My main goals with the myobrace are to stabilize my transverse palate expansion, and align my teeth to the wider arch. However, I look at this as a transitional state, as I'd like to move forward with other strategies for more expansion in both the transverse and sagittal directions. Maybe I will try about 3 months with the A2 and 3 months with the A3 before moving on.

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Topic starter Posted : 16/09/2018 12:46 am
Apollo
(@apollo)
500+ Forum Posts

Some nutritional updates:

Although my new batch of liver has been ready for about 2 weeks, I haven't had time to prepare it. The last batch ran out about one week early, so in total it's been about 3 weeks that I haven't been taking any liver. I cut it up last night and started taking it again today. I need to purchase more to have in the freezer so that it is ready when this batch runs out. During that time I haven't taken any vitamin D to avoid an imbalance of fat soluble vitamins, and I've also been inconsistent about taking my other supplements.

I ordered a bottle of 5mg MK-4 and started taking that today in addition to the 100mcg MK-7 I have been taking. I've decided to take the MK-4 after my first meal of the day and to take the MK-7 after my second meal of the day, since the MK-7 has a longer half life. I also divide up my doses of fish oil and magnesium so it should be easy enough to remember to take both sets of pills.

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Topic starter Posted : 16/09/2018 4:13 am
Apollo
(@apollo)
500+ Forum Posts

I'm not sure if it is related, but I got a bad headache on the first day when I took both the MK-4 and the MK-7. I skipped yesterday, but I'm trying it again today. So far I don't have a headache. I remember reading an interesting review on the Amazon listing for the MK-4 I ordered which described headaches resulting from an imbalance of fat soluble vitamins (specifically taking too much vitamin D with K). I'll research this further, but I suspect my headache was actually related to sleep disturbances as most of my recent headaches seem to be. I downloaded an app called SnoreLab which is supposed to monitor for snoring sounds while you sleep. I haven't used it yet because I like to fall asleep listening to podcasts on my phone, which I can't do if this app is scanning for sounds. I'm going to try to use it for at least a couple nights to see what it finds.

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Topic starter Posted : 18/09/2018 12:56 am
Apollo
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500+ Forum Posts

I'm still wondering if my introduction of 5mg of MK-4 per day is causing headaches. I haven't had a headache as bad as the first day I took it, but I have had a mild dull headache for most of the past few days. I'll continue to experiment with this and read about side effects.

I forgot to note that I purchased more beef liver yesterday so that I can keep track of how long it has been in my freezer. It should be ready to use by 10/3/18.

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Topic starter Posted : 21/09/2018 2:38 am
Shane
(@shane)
10+ Forum Posts

don't know about k2 causing headaches. my guess is that it is a coincidence.

i am buying the garmin vivosmart 4 when it comes out. i have the fitbit blaze, and the sleep stuff is pretty cool. the garmin takes that up a few notches (plus HRV).

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Posted : 22/09/2018 3:29 am
Apollo
(@apollo)
500+ Forum Posts
Posted by: Shane

don't know about k2 causing headaches. my guess is that it is a coincidence.

i am buying the garmin vivosmart 4 when it comes out. i have the fitbit blaze, and the sleep stuff is pretty cool. the garmin takes that up a few notches (plus HRV).

I agree @shane that the headaches I've had recently are probably part of the same issue with sleep disturbance, airway resistance, and neck tension that seems to cause my headaches in general and not a reaction to my change in supplements. I did a little research and didn't find any sources describing headaches as a side effect of K2, which is supposed to be pretty well tolerated up to high doses. The fitbit and garmin monitor sleep based on how much you move around during the night, right? The app I am using just monitors for snoring sounds. I probably should have a real sleep study done when I have the time and money.

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Topic starter Posted : 22/09/2018 5:34 am
Shane
(@shane)
10+ Forum Posts

the new vivosmart also monitors the oxygen levels in your blood. this would be key in identifying snoring/apnea issues:

"Sleep is important to your overall health, well-being and physical performance. To give you an idea of how you’re sleeping, vívosmart 4 tracks your light, deep and REM stages of sleep, along with movement throughout the night. For added insight, turn on the Pulse Ox feature to view your blood oxygen levels during your sleep."

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/605739

the oura ring does something similar, but i'm not keen on wearing a ring.

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Posted : 22/09/2018 5:39 am
Apollo liked
Apollo
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I ordered a large myobrace A3. I didn't expect to ever move on to the A3 after using the A2, since I still want to expand more (both sideways and forward), and I'm using the A2 mostly to help stabilize my first round of expansion before moving on. However, I'm now hoping that the firmer material of the A3 will do more to align my lower incisors and upright my lingually-tipped lower molars. It seems like I need some expansion between my lower canines to reduce the crowding of the incisors, and maybe the firmer material will help. I expect the A3 will arrive in the next couple weeks. At that point, I will have been using the A2 for a couple months. Depending how it feels in my mouth, I might still wait a while before transitioning to the A3. My goal is to use the myobrace (A2 and A3) for a total of about 6 months before I move on to other strategies.

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Topic starter Posted : 26/09/2018 1:03 am
Shane
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10+ Forum Posts

@Apollo are any of your teeth loose? 3 of my 4 lower front teeth are loose (I could probably pop them off if I wanted).

This has been the case ever since I started with the Myobrace 5+ months ago.

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Posted : 26/09/2018 1:13 am
Apollo
(@apollo)
500+ Forum Posts
Posted by: Shane

@Apollo are any of your teeth loose? 3 of my 4 lower front teeth are loose (I could probably pop them off if I wanted).

This has been the case ever since I started with the Myobrace 5+ months ago.

I think this is a pretty normal sensation with orthodontic adjustments like myobrace, invisalign, etc. I guess it has something to do with stretching the periodontal ligaments. I've had dreams about my teeth falling out recently, but mine really only feel slightly "loose" for a while after I take out the myobrace in the morning. Maybe it isn't as dramatic for me since my teeth were already pretty well aligned. Mine feel like they quickly tighten back up, especially if I do any chewing soon after taking out the myobrace.

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Topic starter Posted : 26/09/2018 2:50 am
Meowxilla liked
Shane
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10+ Forum Posts

The point I was trying to make is that if A1/A2 aren't moving your teeth, I'm not sure you will get any joy from the A3, but I could be wrong.

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Posted : 26/09/2018 2:56 am
Apollo
(@apollo)
500+ Forum Posts
Posted by: Shane

The point I was trying to make is that if A1/A2 aren't moving your teeth, I'm not sure you will get any joy from the A3, but I could be wrong.

I've definitely gotten some dental movement with the A2, especially in my lower incisors. I've gone from having one lower central incisor tilted behind the other teeth to having both of the central incisors tilted slightly ahead of the lateral incisors. My lower molars might also be a little more upright. I just still don't have quite enough width to accommodate all of the lower anterior teeth in alignment, so maybe the firmer channels will better force them to line up and shift the canines a little to the sides. Since I'm no longer experiencing the degree of discomfort I had when I first started using the myobrace, I feel like the A3 might help fine tune the alignment. Maybe not, but it's already on the way, so I'll give it a try. I'm also curious if the hollow tongue tag will make it easier to keep better tongue posture.

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Topic starter Posted : 26/09/2018 10:48 am
Apollo
(@apollo)
500+ Forum Posts

While chewing during dinner tonight, I bit down uncomfortably on my two right lateral incisors. It felt kind of like when you bite down on something hard in your food. I think this happened because my occlusion hasn't totally adjusted to the protruded position that the myobrace puts my mandible in.

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Topic starter Posted : 27/09/2018 6:41 am
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