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Mewing has seriously f******up my hormones.I feel stressed as soon as i think about it and i am unconfident that i do this right(plus pics)  

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Dimitrelos300
Active Member

The last two months i really try everything i can to forget mewing and to learn it perfect so as i dont pay attention it.I must say that i have somehow managed to do this but only at night.When I conciously think about it i always become stress ed and feel UNCERTAIN that i do it right.I dont know if my fears are true but i often feel like i do sth wrong despite having relaxed lips, teeth in near contact and tongue on the pallate.

Masseters activation is really confusing.Are they supposed to be active all  the time or relaxed?Or both? When i mew,  I sometimes feel my masseters completelly relaxed and sometimes flexed.Also sometimes i feel a part of the muscle active and the other not  and it is really confusing(like [Rude Language or Insults are not tolerated] is happening in my mouth)I wonder if i do sth wrong.

I would like an answer regarding masseter activation

Also when i seal my lips,sometimes i notice my chin muscle tighten and it pulls my chin hair up and they no longer located under my chin.They are up.It really annoys me and make me feel like stupid despite fuly relaxing my lips.Also i still dont know if all my teeth should touch or only the molars.Should the upper two front lips also touch.This queastions and the feeling that i dont do everything right stress me very very much.My gym gains have stopped.Despite being at 9% bodyfat  with reasonable muscle mass i found it hard to make muscle gains anymore and i think the reason is the streess mewing causes me.I am afraid that if i dont clearify some things, my testosterone will plummet and i will also start loose gains(which is bad because it was high when I did a blood test) but i dont know if it will continue to be(cortisol affect testosterone)Sometimes i just wish i had never discovered tropic premise.Despite looking facially better than a year ago i think i would weight 4 kg more if i didnt knew about this.

  • I will also provide some pics.I am confused about my maxilla position.I dont know if it is average bad or good(maybe unlickely)i would appreciate a profile evaluation
 
This topic was modified 10 months ago 3 times by Dimitrelos300
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Posted : 26/12/2018 9:55 am
Dimitrelos300
Active Member

Here is also my front view

It is better that these photos will not be seen by many people lol

 
This post was modified 10 months ago by Progress
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Posted : 26/12/2018 12:12 pm
Aussiemax liked
Progress
Member Moderator

1. What exactly are you uncertain and afraid about? You write that your face has improved in the past year. If you were doing something wrong, could such change have been possible?

2. Your masseters should be engaged enough to keep your mandibular dental arch close to (or in light contact with) your maxillary arch. This amounts to a an intensity of tension in the masseter that is somewhere halfway between relaxation and engagement.

3. You write that sometimes your masseter are more relaxed than at other times. Possible factors that can influence masseter engagement are head angle, overall posture and stress level.

4. Preferrably all teeth should be able to make contact with each other simultaneously, but if you are forced to choose, prioritize molars over incisors.

5. Ideally you should be able to seal your lips without engaging chin muscles. At less than ideal levels of development though, this can become harder, or even impossible. 

5. Are you sure you are eating enough? Maintaining bodyfat at 9% will eventually stall your strength progress unless you start eating more. This is especially true if you have been lifting for only a year or two, since in the beginning you will gain strength regardless of how little you eat. Not eating enough is already enough in itself to put the body into a state of stress. 

This post was modified 10 months ago 2 times by Progress
ReplyQuote
Posted : 26/12/2018 6:15 pm
darkindigo
Reputable Member

The only metric to go off for maxilla position in this photo is nasolabial angle.  It looks good to me here.

There may be a chance that your airway is not as good.  See here:  http://www.airwaydevelopment.com/2014/06/link-airways-obstructive-sleep-apnea-faces/   Class 2 individuals are more likely to have airway issues.  Additionally, if there's a restricted airway this can effect mental health.  If so.. there are multifaceted interventions for airway health, too. 

I disagree with a lot of "Mewing".  I am NOT for pushing the tongue anywhere.  The tongue is the STRONGEST muscle in our body.  Pushing it and building a habit of pushing it and it can be hard to stop.  I got curve of spee.  Here's the premise... Newton's 3rd law.  If you're pushing on the roof of your mouth,... it pushes your tongue down.  The teeth bow under the pressure.  That's how it works.  Sorry.  It is.

So... I would just relax a little more... if you want to work on your outer U, fine.  Inner U looks good to me.  See more on inner/outer U here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijFkcLMmSJI&t=297s   Dr. Mew doesn't spell it out in this video... but does elsewhere... clenching teeth is super, duper bad.  Don't do it.  Truth is.. even positioning of outer U has little to do with driving it.  For example... 1 meal with Schwartz is worth 24 hours of wearing it around.  So.. chewing gum can bring up the outer U.  But... there's a lot to consider here.  Additionally, trying to drive mandible slowly forward over time (naturally) can have unintended consequences:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0ZRkXIBIpw&t=2s  

Many people with a class 2 dentition underperform in life.  It's super sad.  I see it ALL the time. Check out this really cool story: https://youtu.be/yFPwOM8Azz c"> https://youtu.be/yFPwOM8Azzc

I agree that it is really stressful to try to worry about positioning.  It is a relief to have someone you can trust to help out and carry that burden.  Pretty much every orthodontist will give a free consult.  Here are some really great airway focused orthodontists:  https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/3d-cbct-airway-orthodontists/#post-10386   Many orthodontists refer class 2 kids to surgery even as teens.  Bringing the mandible forward during its growth cycle is easy...  around age 10-12 for most.  Super sad that it didn't come forward.  Hopefully your airway is okay.

Whatever you do is up to you.  I'm not a doctor... just wanted to share some potentially relevant information. Getting informed is very helpful, no matter what you decide.

This post was modified 10 months ago by darkindigo
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Posted : 26/12/2018 6:26 pm
Progress
Member Moderator
Posted by: darkindigo

I disagree with a lot of "Mewing".  I am NOT for pushing the tongue anywhere.  The tongue is the STRONGEST muscle in our body.  Pushing it and building a habit of pushing it and it can be hard to stop.  I got curve of spee.  Here's the premise... Newton's 3rd law.  If you're pushing on the roof of your mouth,... it pushes your tongue down.  The teeth bow under the pressure.  That's how it works.  Sorry.  It is.

I commend you for the rest of the post, but this paragraph is made up of misleading claims.

1) The tongue is the strongest muscle of the body in relation to its size. In terms of absolute strength, tongue is a WEAK muscle, with the tongue of an average adult being able to push with a maximum force of 2-4 kg... and that's just for a few seconds. [1]

2) You either misunderstand or misrepresent Newton's third law. While it's theoretically true that every action has an equal opposite reaction, your tongue is not actually being pushed down by the palate. In practice, the law simply means that the palate is going to resist the push according to the capability of the maxillary bone to resist such push.

3) Unless you are pushing directly against the teeth - which is not necessarily advisable - there is zero pressure coming at them. There is nothing to "bow" for.

 

[1]  https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00405-014-3103-6

This post was modified 10 months ago 2 times by Progress
ReplyQuote
Posted : 26/12/2018 6:46 pm
Apollo
Reputable Member
Posted by: Dimitrelos300

Masseters activation is really confusing.Are they supposed to be active all  the time or relaxed?Or both? When i mew,  I sometimes feel my masseters completelly relaxed and sometimes flexed.Also sometimes i feel a part of the muscle active and the other not  and it is really confusing(like [Rude Language or Insults are not tolerated] is happening in my mouth)I wonder if i do sth wrong.

I would like an answer regarding masseter activation

The masseters should be recruited only to the extent of balancing the force of the tongue and keeping the teeth in light or near touch (but avoiding clenching/bruxism). Since the tongue pushing up on the palate would have the effect of separating the jaws, the masseters need to balance that force to keep the jaws together. If you are pressing harder with the tongue, you have to squeeze harder with the masseters to maintain the same position. You want to build up the resting tone of both muscles in balance.

This post was modified 10 months ago by Apollo
ReplyQuote
Posted : 26/12/2018 9:36 pm
Dimitrelos300
Active Member

Thank you for your clearifications about masseters i appreciate.Btw i am eating enough carbs as I train for hypertrophie.Maybe the 9% bodyfat was excessive maybe 10% to 11% is most accurate.I had braces and luckily i dokt have any sleep apnea.Even when i chin tuck i find it quite easily to breathe through my nose.I know my face has improved but i felt i did partially right.Again thank you for the answer

ReplyQuote
Posted : 27/12/2018 4:45 am
darkindigo
Reputable Member
Posted by: Progress
Posted by: darkindigo

I disagree with a lot of "Mewing".  I am NOT for pushing the tongue anywhere.  The tongue is the STRONGEST muscle in our body.  Pushing it and building a habit of pushing it and it can be hard to stop.  I got curve of spee.  Here's the premise... Newton's 3rd law.  If you're pushing on the roof of your mouth,... it pushes your tongue down.  The teeth bow under the pressure.  That's how it works.  Sorry.  It is.

I commend you for the rest of the post, but this paragraph is made up of misleading claims.

1) The tongue is the strongest muscle of the body in relation to its size. In terms of absolute strength, tongue is a WEAK muscle, with the tongue of an average adult being able to push with a maximum force of 2-4 kg... and that's just for a few seconds. [1]

2) You either misunderstand or misrepresent Newton's third law. While it's theoretically true that every action has an equal opposite reaction, your tongue is not actually being pushed down by the palate. In practice, the law simply means that the palate is going to resist the push according to the capability of the maxillary bone to resist such push.

3) Unless you are pushing directly against the teeth - which is not necessarily advisable - there is zero pressure coming at them. There is nothing to "bow" for.

 

[1]  https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00405-014-3103-6

1) Thanks for clarifying about the tongue.  I'd heard this from a dentist and took it at face value.   I ought to have validated what they had told me before passing it along.  Yes... I think that what was meant is its strength in relation to its size.  🙂

2) I hear of it commonly in terms for dental movement.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oG2khF7AX94&t=22s 4:39 start  Even on a forum of professionals in the airway space and I read about it again.  It's how force is.  There is force applied to a bug from a car windshield.  That bug is also applying the same amount of force back to the car.

3) Yes... it appears that there is not pressure against the teeth directly from the tongue... though teeth can move based on pressing on nearby surroundings.  The base bone must have been impacted.  I'll have to get CBCT again and merge them.  There are quite a few others with the same formerly extremely rare condition.

This post was modified 10 months ago 3 times by darkindigo
ReplyQuote
Posted : 27/12/2018 5:35 am
Progress
Member Moderator
Posted by: darkindigo

I'll have to get CBCT again and merge them. 

This would be valuable.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 27/12/2018 4:11 pm
darkindigo
Reputable Member
Posted by: Progress
Posted by: darkindigo

I'll have to get CBCT again and merge them. 

This would be valuable.

Yes - I'll have to.  The amount was minor, since I'm pretty observant.  I know others who say they have it more severe.

This post was modified 10 months ago by darkindigo
ReplyQuote
Posted : 27/12/2018 5:24 pm
noises
Eminent Member
Posted by: darkindigo
If you're pushing on the roof of your mouth,... it pushes your tongue down.  The teeth bow under the pressure.  That's how it works.  Sorry.  It is.

I'm no expert in physics nor anatomy but my impression is that this is probably a valid point but you're overlooking the aspect of tissular interconnections. The tongue isn't an isolated unit that only connects to the mandible but like all other muscles, it's a part of a myofascial chain which can distribute loads across neighboring components. This is probably another reason why the chin tuck and good body posture while mewing are essential. When your body is properly aligned the counterforce from the maxilla should be primarily absorbed down the myofascial track rather than stressing the mandible. Here's a video (perhaps graphic) that demonstrates this track which goes from the tongue to the toes.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 28/12/2018 6:14 pm
Dimitrelos300
Active Member

How can i delete my pics.They are visible in google wihout log in in this site and i dont want this.Can i delete them?

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Posted : 04/01/2019 9:10 am
catirl
Active Member

Edit the post and delete the link or maybe any mod can do that for you.

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Posted : 04/01/2019 1:25 pm
Progress
Member Moderator
Posted by: Dimitrelos300

How can i delete my pics.They are visible in google wihout log in in this site and i dont want this.Can i delete them?

I deleted them, but note that if Google has already scraped your pics, there is a possibility that they will remain searchable in one way or another.

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Posted : 04/01/2019 5:00 pm
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As you undergo correction in the near future, please consider keeping records for your own sake and for others. Pictures of dental impressions, scans, medical reports reports can be very helpful even with all personally identifying information blocked out.

Your input could help many, many people

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