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I may have messed up my face, my teeth, and my life...and idk what to do  

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JawShrunk123
Active Member

OK I know what I did was stupid, so please do not tell me how dumb I was.

I have an asymetrical palate, and spent so much time being obsessed with it. Today, I was frusterated, and pushed the gums of my upper jaw inward. If you pull up your cheek and look at your entire upper gum, you will see a ridge along the perimeter of it. I pushed that ridge in on my left side. 

Now, my left eye is wide open, and air seems to flow "inside it". My breathing is messed up, and idk the skin under my left eye seems to sag. Now I have a constant under bite on my left side. IDKK what I messed up, but I know its bad. I have not been able to function today. 

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Posted : 04/03/2019 4:31 am
TGW
 TGW
TGW Admin Admin

You think that you managed to shift your alveolar ridge bones by pushing against them for a few moments?

Unless your bones are made of cardboard, you may be imagining things by paying too much attention to small differences in how you feel. 

There have been a few people who panic because of some non-existant rapid and terrible change - it's hypochondriac behavior. You would need to have some insanely rare condition (that you would already know about) for your alveolar ridge, maxilla, zygos, and orbits to change shape/position from you pushing on your gums.

In other words: relax 

If you think you have actually caused a change, you need to see a doctor. Not because of the change alone, but because your bones are brittle enough to shift from being pushed by hand

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Posted : 04/03/2019 9:08 am
joiski liked
JawShrunk123
Active Member

i am 100 percent sure I shifted them. I pushed hard...and now I can feel it. It feels so empty up there, and its not holding up my "cheeckbone". It feels flat compared to the right. 

How long until permanent damage is done? Is there anything that can be done about my situation?

How long until it starts affecting my entire face?

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Posted : 04/03/2019 9:31 am
JawShrunk123
Active Member
Posted by: TGW

You think that you managed to shift your alveolar ridge bones by pushing against them for a few moments?

Unless your bones are made of cardboard, you may be imagining things by paying too much attention to small differences in how you feel. 

There have been a few people who panic because of some non-existant rapid and terrible change - it's hypochondriac behavior. You would need to have some insanely rare condition (that you would already know about) for your alveolar ridge, maxilla, zygos, and orbits to change shape/position from you pushing on your gums.

In other words: relax 

If you think you have actually caused a change, you need to see a doctor. Not because of the change alone, but because your bones are brittle enough to shift from being pushed by hand

i am 100 percent sure I shifted them. I pushed hard...and now I can feel it. It feels so empty up there, and its not holding up my "cheeckbone". It feels flat compared to the right. 

How long until permanent damage is done? Is there anything that can be done about my situation?

How long until it starts affecting my entire face?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 04/03/2019 9:32 am
TGW
 TGW
TGW Admin Admin

If you feel your physical condition is continuing to deteriorate, you need to seek medical attention as soon as possible. 

In my non-medical opinion: Your maxillae/alveolar ridge are not soft and malleable to intense short term force. To actually "push" them inward would require breaking them. If you did this, you would be experiencing either debilitating pain or complete numbness across the area. And probably also bleeding.

Since you are not:

It is very unlikely you have actually caused anything to be pushed inwards. More likely is that by applying lots of force at one side of your maxilla, you caused a slight adjustment in its position. Very slight. On the scale of 0.10 of a millimeter or less. Yet such an adjustment can still cause perceptible changes, especially if you are focusing on it heavily. My suggestion would be to visit an osteopathic doctor ("bone doctor") or craniosacral therapist and tell them what happened. They charge around $100 USD for an hour appointment in which they will probably re-assure you that things are fine, and adjust your skull slightly to correct the slight adjustment that you made. Actually, you would probably get more than just one adjustment in an hour appointment. 

Don't apply hard asymmetrical forces, folks. 

If you still think that you've managed to push your bones inwards - go to a doctor

"Doctor" is the only advice anyone can give if bones have collapsed inwards from being pushed. That's not a "change", that's a fracture/break.  

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Posted : 04/03/2019 11:26 am
JawShrunk123
Active Member
Posted by: TGW

If you feel your physical condition is continuing to deteriorate, you need to seek medical attention as soon as possible. 

In my non-medical opinion: Your maxillae/alveolar ridge are not soft and malleable to intense short term force. To actually "push" them inward would require breaking them. If you did this, you would be experiencing either debilitating pain or complete numbness across the area. And probably also bleeding.

Since you are not:

It is very unlikely you have actually caused anything to be pushed inwards. More likely is that by applying lots of force at one side of your maxilla, you caused a slight adjustment in its position. Very slight. On the scale of 0.10 of a millimeter or less. Yet such an adjustment can still cause perceptible changes, especially if you are focusing on it heavily. My suggestion would be to visit an osteopathic doctor ("bone doctor") or craniosacral therapist and tell them what happened. They charge around $100 USD for an hour appointment in which they will probably re-assure you that things are fine, and adjust your skull slightly to correct the slight adjustment that you made. Actually, you would probably get more than just one adjustment in an hour appointment. 

Don't apply hard asymmetrical forces, folks. 

If you still think that you've managed to push your bones inwards - go to a doctor

"Doctor" is the only advice anyone can give if bones have collapsed inwards from being pushed. That's not a "change", that's a fracture/break.  

Ok so I didn’t brake anything, no pain, but my body is taking affect. My mouth wants to go into an underbite on my left, it collapsed down and in. I made a minor adjustment to the bones. Not major, but my jaw muscle is on empty space because I pushed my bones in a bit, a bit, so it will shrink a bit right?

all I am worried about is if it’s fixable, and if there’s is nice long term damage to my face. My whole breathing pattern and gait got altered because my face wants to tilt to the left because of the underbite that’s happening. Thanks for the replies!

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Posted : 04/03/2019 11:58 am
TGW
 TGW
TGW Admin Admin

You should be able to find a craniosacral therapist or osteopath in any major town or city. Or even chiropractors that do adjustments. Or Advanced Bio structural Correction practitioner. or NeuroCranial Restructuring practitioner. Or ROLFer.

There's more than a dozen different occupations / practitioners who can help you fix this slight adjustment, and even do some "good" adjustments

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Posted : 04/03/2019 12:06 pm
JawShrunk123
Active Member
Posted by: TGW

You should be able to find a craniosacral therapist or osteopath in any major town or city. Or even chiropractors that do adjustments. Or Advanced Bio structural Correction practitioner. or NeuroCranial Restructuring practitioner. Or ROLFer.

There's more than a dozen different occupations / practitioners who can help you fix this slight adjustment, and even do some "good" adjustments

Ok thanks a lot! That makes me feel a lot better. Feeling the ridge rather flatter in my left and more pronounced on my right had my going all kind so of “hypochondriac” ways in my head 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 04/03/2019 12:08 pm
darkindigo
Reputable Member

If you were my brother, here's exactly what I'd tell him:

You're going to be cool, Bro.  You look awesome, even with a half-caved in face.  LOL  Knuckles.

Dude - just push it out like you pushed it in.  No biggie.

Can you blow out your tears?  That would be really cool if you could cry straight out.

"" mind freak. 

I've got a handsome bro, yo.  Even when you look like you got in a bar fight, you still look awesome.  Hey - want to do some fake vids of a bar fight scene?

---------------------

That's what I'd tell him, because honestly the face is super adaptable and malliable.  It changes so much and you have so much control over it - it's nuts.  I, too, have a super maliable face.  It can change and go every which way.  Not sure why - probably because I'm low on K-2 & deal with vit D deficiencies.  The face can change easily.  Also, I got PTSD from health changes and worries and stuff before.  Being able to let it go (even moments at a time) will help to stave that off.  If you can do something really relaxing where you are able to unwind, that is super important.  Something you enjoy - even better.  Sleep is important to process this stuff.  Try to not sleep on left so much or eat hard foods on left until healed completely.  Also, for relaxing when really stressed, this exercise is excellent: https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/favorite-eastern-nasal-breathing-exercise/ (use your right hand and only lightly push gently on left side with pinky).  It should calm you down and may even speed recovery.  If you find that your nose has been impacted... following the exercise above, just insert your little pinky into the nostril to push it out gently.

Do not apply pressure inward.  Any pressure applied should be outward (& not up towards eyes).  For any pressure applied, avoid tipping up.  You want lateral pressure, so you're not going to impinge in your eye area.  An appliance can also offer this.  Message me for details on this.  Generally, with any face pushing/pulling, etc. that I've done... I only do a couple seconds of light pressure and wait a few days.  A couple seconds and wait a few days.  That has worked for me, as it is easily overdone.  Despite my techniques, face-pulling is highly dangerous - as you have discovered.  There are also other groups out there who do facepulling/smashing/yanking/maneuvering.  Surely they know more on this stuff.

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Posted : 04/03/2019 1:03 pm
darkindigo
Reputable Member

You can get better results if addressed in weeks rather than months.  Your body wants to go back to where it was.  It probably won't get there exactly, but close.

Also, an appliance may be better... because you'd have calculated control.  The thing is... when I had done facepulling - I did get some crazy results and flopping around and all that.  I am spacially gifted, so I was able to resolve it.. If you're not spacially gifted, I do recommend an appliance or working with someone who will mind the mid-line.  The mid-line is the center of your front teeth.  Should be directly below the nose.  When applying outward pressure on the left, your right will want to come in.  That's why it's important that it is stabilized.  Ideally, being able to find someone who can do really good face pulling is good.  I just have never really heard of anyone.  The things to mind are cant, arch shape, midlines, cheeks, eyes, nose, jaw, forward placement.  When it's disarticuulated, it is all over.  That's why they usually go to surgery.

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Posted : 04/03/2019 1:06 pm
darkindigo
Reputable Member

For appliance details...

1) Depending on how the asymmetry is, you can do various lab appliances.

2) You may be able to get some relevant info by a phenominal lab tech.  I really like orthotech.net as the manager there is really great!  There are other labs around the world that surely are run by careful and knowledgable staff.  They know things about appliances that their clients often fail to realize or care about (their clients being orthos and dentists).  However, they don't know things that orthodontists know and dentists know.  That's why I like a cooperative approach to difficult situations.  You must take all the knowledge and put it together in these cases.

3) The lab orthotech.net will take either a mold and work from that or take an iTerro scan, 3D print it and provide the appliance through the mail.  I like that latter option for a number of reasons.  I would highly encourage 2 removeable appliances.  1 will get lost and when (not if) it does, relapse is possibly lightning fast.  Okay, slight exaggeration, but major changes can happen in days.  No exaggeration there.  By the time a replaement mold is taken and ordered and all that, then it's like square 1.  And they don't use the same initial starting point... they have to rescan/recreate a mold to do it right.  So... I like to get 2 identical appliances & keep them in sync.  Working with a mold may injure it.. not sure... but I like like 3D for 3 main reasons: accuracy, digital for repourposing on creation if needed, and speed of transit. 

First) Accuracy - An iTerro scan is fast and is more accurate.
Second) Digital - Not all places do iTerro scans and the ones who do may not be able to get a way to get it out of their integrated system.  It doesn't matter if they have the iTerro or iTerro 2 equipment.  The scan is the scan.  Make sure they can get the scan over to where it needs to go first.  Otherwise, it may be stuck in their system and integrated only over to their lab.  This won't be a bad thing if their lab knows what to do (proper treatment).
Third) Speed of transit = no snail mail for transit.

I strongly suggest for creating an appliance to get an iTerro scan.  If the lab is local or carefully shipped a mold will suffice.. probably would make 2 molds if 2 appliances desired.  Ask if you can get a copy of the scan to your dentist for records.  If desired, ask for a mold of your mouth to store at home.  These get tossed, but you can ask for one at home for your records.  Say it's for a souveneire or for your dentist.  People don't like double-checkers.  

4) A 3-way split may be in order.  This is poured acrylic with room to drop in palate (wax against palate during creation for a space there OR against palate and shaved down with turning key junction further from palate OR possibly the better of both... wax on side that needs to go out.. in this case the left.. just depends on the palatal vault and any asymmetries there to be assessed by lab tech - passed off by dentist - they really should work in more conjunction, but don't).  See photo on what is meant by a 3-way split here: https://the-great-work.org/community/case-discussions/surgery-or-no/#post-16515   Would absolutely get some good clasps (like Adams clasps) to mitigate tipping of teeth.  That is crazy common with saggitals.  I don't believe personally in strong truns, but turns broken up into more frequent/stronger intervals... like instead of a quarter turn once every 2 weeks or whatever.. I have asked for the ability to do a 1/4 of a 1/4 every half week.  Things like that.  These numbers are pulled out of thin air.  Nothing behind them.

I AM NOT A DOCTOR - I AM NOT A DENTIST - WORK WITH YOUR OWN - BY THE TIME YOU READ THIS THIS MAY BE OUTDATED.   ORTHOS I TRUST MORE THAN DENTISTS MOST ANY DAY.  THEY WENT TO SCHOOL TO HELP THIS STUFF.  SOMETIMES I PERSONALLY TRUST A LAB TECH MORE THAN AN ORTHO.  For asymmetries, an oral and maxillofacial suregeon may be called for.  Sometimes an eager TMJ dentist or TMJ ortho with CBCT would attempt to help. I would realize that a 3-way apploance may not give straight out pressure, but there would be torque involved.  Would need to mind the midlines in cleanup.  And definately the TMJ.  Optomotrist.  Prob a good idea to keep hydrated in eyes.  Would definitely see an eye doc NOW!!!!  Lots going on.  Sending prayers your way.

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Posted : 04/03/2019 2:04 pm
darkindigo
Reputable Member

SEE AN EYE DOC NOW!!!!!  Literally just happened to be at an eye doctors right now.  I said about you and asked isn't dry eyes bad?  We didn't talk long, but he said that infections are also an immediate worry.

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Posted : 04/03/2019 2:38 pm
darkindigo
Reputable Member

The better pracritioner in the world who understands this would be Dr. Michael Bennett of Vivos.  He's clinical director... they look at head position, gait, all that.  Dr. David Singh, Vivos creator, is all about symmetry.  He would be the best.  vivoslife.com has links to other pracrictioners, too.

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Posted : 04/03/2019 7:38 pm
JawShrunk123
Active Member
Posted by: TGW

You should be able to find a craniosacral therapist or osteopath in any major town or city. Or even chiropractors that do adjustments. Or Advanced Bio structural Correction practitioner. or NeuroCranial Restructuring practitioner. Or ROLFer.

There's more than a dozen different occupations / practitioners who can help you fix this slight adjustment, and even do some "good" adjustments

Hey, I am going to an ortho tomorrow, would they be able to help? You did not mention ortho on the occupations that could help me. 

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Posted : 06/03/2019 11:41 am
darkindigo
Reputable Member

Ortho can help.  If they have CBCT all the better!   https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/3d-cbct-airway-orthodontists/#post-10386  If you go to 15 different orthos you get 15 different treatment plans/prices/outcomes.  Sometimes time is of the essence, though.  They may work with a surgeon.

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Posted : 06/03/2019 12:02 pm
JawShrunk123
Active Member
Posted by: darkindigo

Ortho can help.  If they have CBCT all the better!   https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/3d-cbct-airway-orthodontists/#post-10386  If you go to 15 different orthos you get 15 different treatment plans/prices/outcomes.  Sometimes time is of the essence, though.  They may work with a surgeon.

Ok thanks!!

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Posted : 06/03/2019 12:11 pm
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