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Helmutstrebl
Active Member

@ray135 the reason i want to add bonesmashing is because i lack zygo mass which is stopping me from having hollow cheeks. And u can’t get big zygos from mewing. 

The way i do bonesmashing isn’t risky. I do it just like u mentioned. I use a small wooden stick and just tap with a moderate force(hard enough to cause a little pain and swelling) all around my zygos for 10 minutes everyday. I started it a week ago. We’ll see how that goes!

Also you’re right that it will put some people off if i start bonesmashing but i want zygos too yk so i’ll take my chances xD

ReplyQuote
Posted : 25/06/2019 4:54 pm
135 liked
135
 135
Active Member

@helmutstrebl Fair enough! Glad that you aren't taking the Astrosky approach... Very curious to see what happens.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 25/06/2019 5:26 pm
Fknassymetries
Active Member
Posted by: Helmutstrebl

@ray135 the reason i want to add bonesmashing is because i lack zygo mass which is stopping me from having hollow cheeks. And u can’t get big zygos from mewing. 

The way i do bonesmashing isn’t risky. I do it just like u mentioned. I use a small wooden stick and just tap with a moderate force(hard enough to cause a little pain and swelling) all around my zygos for 10 minutes everyday. I started it a week ago. We’ll see how that goes!

Also you’re right that it will put some people off if i start bonesmashing but i want zygos too yk so i’ll take my chances xD

You don't need that kind of  thick zyggos dude, you have that perfect straight yet well defined temple to jaw line that looks aesthetic and geometric af but your zygos are still there and very important to your look. look at prime brad pitt, when litterally every womens were getting wet on him. Ofc it's your face do whatever you want but i find this a bit sad.

 

Now regardless of what the cause of your transformation is, whether it is mewing or implants/fillers i must say thank you. I will use some appliances, then try your routine and once health problems are fixed, if i am not satisfied with aesthetic i will just show a plastic surgeon that before after and say "i want that kind of transformation please". Sounds h**o but it's not, i know i am not, very deep inside me i know  it.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 25/06/2019 8:06 pm
skinnyboiii
Active Member

@helmutstrebl You have a wonderful, symmetric, and beautiful face, and if you wanted you could easily be a model. There's no need for improvement at this point. Take care of yourself and please don't smash your face. Body dysmorphia is real and I worry you've already fallen prey to it.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 26/06/2019 1:00 am
noises
Eminent Member

I thought maybe I should elaborate on my suggestion about chin projection increasing without additional bone growth. Lots of people have a downturned chin as a result of CFD, even Brad Pitt seems to have it. I made a rough sketch to illustrate how the jawbone could "unfurl" as a result of mewing, as the face lifts up. At least this is exactly what seems to be happening to me. Just something potentially worth considering here.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 26/06/2019 11:02 am
noises
Eminent Member

I aligned the gifs @skinnyboiii posted. Seems pretty apparent to me that what I described is happening here. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 26/06/2019 12:23 pm
skinnyboiii
Active Member
Posted by: noises

I aligned the gifs @skinnyboiii posted. Seems pretty apparent to me that what I described is happening here. 

You can also see that his head is rotating between those pictures. It's hard to draw conclusions.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 26/06/2019 4:58 pm
noises
Eminent Member

Yes, but the brain is pretty adept at differentiating between actual changes and camera rotation, especially with the transitions between pictures. The general scope of what's happening is distinguishable. However it does look like his mandible could be gaining some length too. I wonder if his development had been somewhat stunted and bone rearrangement has allowed more growth towards genetic potential to take place. I think there's been a clear increase in bone volume in my face as well. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 26/06/2019 6:11 pm
GoTTi liked
Odys
 Odys
Eminent Member

There is both a movement of the ramus forward from the ear and a rotation of the mandible that we call upswing but involves a lowering at the back. In this rotation lower incisors that were formerly upright, or appeared so, will become tipped in and require correction.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 27/06/2019 6:41 am
ohwhatthehell
Eminent Member

As a random point, the jaw region DOES grow new bone after consistent pressure. There was a video on another thread about a doctor in his 70s who tried an appliance that more or less simulates correct tongue posture. He did special scans of his bone structure before and after and showed new bone growth. It's definitely possible to grow new bone from pressure.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 27/06/2019 1:22 pm
Fknassymetries
Active Member
Posted by: ohwhatthehell

As a random point, the jaw region DOES grow new bone after consistent pressure. There was a video on another thread about a doctor in his 70s who tried an appliance that more or less simulates correct tongue posture. He did special scans of his bone structure before and after and showed new bone growth. It's definitely possible to grow new bone from pressure.

is this what you are talking about?

https://the-great-work.org/community/main-forum/maxillary-development-in-a-70-year-old-is-clinically-proven/#post-17470

ReplyQuote
Posted : 27/06/2019 2:52 pm
noises
Eminent Member
Posted by: Odys

There is both a movement of the ramus forward from the ear and a rotation of the mandible that we call upswing but involves a lowering at the back. In this rotation lower incisors that were formerly upright, or appeared so, will become tipped in and require correction.

The chin was the focal point here, the rest of my illustration is rather irrelevant. The remodeling that I suggested is barely inconsistent with these ideas, especially if "lowering at the back" means ramus remodeling. Also, I don't see why the mechanism that has kept the incisors upright as the jaws downswung wouldn't work the other way around. The effects of mewing aren't synonymous to disarticulating the mandible and moving it around.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 27/06/2019 7:21 pm
ohwhatthehell
Eminent Member

@fknasymetries yes! Thank you.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 27/06/2019 9:49 pm
skinnyboiii
Active Member

Ha! I never noticed it before but the 70 year old's chin came forward too!

Check it out, from the video!

ReplyQuote
Posted : 27/06/2019 10:57 pm
James
Eminent Member
Posted by: skinnyboiii

Ha! I never noticed it before but the 70 year old's chin came forward too!

Check it out, from the video!

This case is Tom Colquitt, who had the Homeoblock appliance (story here). This is not a result from Mewing alone.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 28/06/2019 1:39 am
Yonasuh
Active Member
Posted by: AlphaMinus
Posted by: ohwhatthehell

@alphaminus I disagree that this isn't good evidence at least that something he did, mewing or chewing, had a profound effect on his facial structure. Look at the mass of his chin. No amount of jutting increases muscle and bone mass like that. His chin isn't just better aligned, it's clearly much bigger than before. Now, if someone debunked this and said that he got an implant, I would accept that. But saying that he's just adjusting his posture? There's simply no way.

You're making judgments about the size of someone's chin from two photos in which the chin is covered by beard (is it exactly the same amount of beard in both photos? Impossible to tell, and just a few days extra beard growth can cause a noticeable difference in the size of the chin) and in which he possibly has different head posture. Also, looking at the animation, it would appear that he's standing closer to the camera in the after photo (and he's certainly standing in different positions relative to the light). These, among other things, make the photos very misleading and problematic as a before/after comparison. Proximity to the lens, for example, can absolutely distort dimensions depending on the kind of lens used.  I think people get a little carried away with the idea of matching a landmark in two photos - in this case, great care has been taken to make sure that the ears match exactly in both photos. But this does not mean that everything else is in exactly the same position relative to each other. 

 

Sadly, in the absence of any formal scientific studies, I think all we're ever going to see is rough guesswork like this, and there are so many factors which make these photos almost useless as a gauge. 

how did you become a estimable member? youre blind. and all the other people stating fillers are as well. the main difference with fillers and mewing is the eyelids. look at the dudes upper eyelids. if you get fillers, it doesnt change. if you do mewing, it gets hooded. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 28/06/2019 3:10 am
skinnyboiii
Active Member
Posted by: James
Posted by: skinnyboiii

Ha! I never noticed it before but the 70 year old's chin came forward too!

Check it out, from the video!

This case is Tom Colquitt, who had the Homeoblock appliance (story here). This is not a result from Mewing alone.

I realized that. My point is that he used a palatal expander and grew a slightly bigger chin. Something is going on there. There are a lot of folks parading around here saying that bone growth on the chin is impossible. This is the fourth example I've seen of a chin slightly changing size. The OP's case is just the most extreme.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 28/06/2019 4:24 am
dm222
Trusted Member

Huge results here

https://www.reddit.com/r/orthotropics/comments/bv7n8f/mewing_since_2016_seen_great_improvement_in_all/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

 

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/wazFtWRbMBx1-IPdGB-aFK_L76ZpJMAR5dbjonbw_RSCAShqrV4lyfHvUIkSiDQGNGchbtEkldpY_6-JH9AQF3kNRSriKGYChZc3zEaBbM4RYqJ2c7tkXJFP7vcDTUTDD-I4gPVZDpP-PDQEAgZWdIZFcUijpEVdGZi8a8EYZXM9P9RGgo8IEMzD4W95gqVA9FOzT9dS4qZEUTfbQUNEN9gZrxRI_LT2vO6wFBg7FPgCh-AiSKWM8yyvp42ugcb8wOru-r3pQ-KUn3niZ3eejZwNLRpYvi55hTjzxCmh3k-lAsCzdfaAf30cdUgXMomToQJm8ErvezFQUKs0v3xXiYEpuYudVHFt3P98hvKfanKljE3A0hEEehum2R26tzuq_nCxNhOozGQ2I2l3q63N69chWtkVLvhNmkJd5r5aXsncVs65RGeGkUraQNJfORHK6E-tJGl306v3GJGBskbF0zuirfO0ipB8DsJidaM2qmbfhxE1SbRB4JfJGl77KoKYWaWHdu5i-uiBWi_VEmytibkCqA1IQWeFtALBuB6oSrbX9Pya0x_JoqPSKMt0mKCnwaOn5AKBIg85giY4Fn5yLgPqBHlf1zcQ8ED5VUx-2fpdJgUOnI_Jv_G4QjiRqfxUKUgvvgBn0XWMGudzDBojUj6T30ysp_vWqLYqmhN5lH8oM41U_Cg1J3ediwXx6PKaxK160D2uD35VNDSv9GzUP2-w=w325-h667-no

 

 

 

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/D7iTteQfUWAcAQyq10zLLEHhrY6V4OQ8O7Fh5b-TaSbkC5xALw1OdyVCdkQasN-D1vjlyn8Jp1gznr7XtyH-9hcgNY8Lpahm2avdz66Bt2tyj_At3NOEvpeqFvxfoILaCDFVEZHvSw8ZRJJUbPHEZ_q3kMG6IxDt7blIpCiZ79EGZQmPqoztPeKDts4ZmHcG_6AZaHNrLwTkwSZzJd5HyeKAojhycG_mEgpw6wXytnp8DZUZe8zqq0Kr-JUSf1WunGC8dp92bVbyGhZVfW5s7H3lg7JBBY1ot8E4uoq7ZTs6TIH4sgBo80GCqQCDaaOExTbcU-UN0a9dB3NegRS_rwh90JLw7vljfgsFCajIUfd_XE16NBmVY3MVggNPitUU1o6hTBi_bmOqWjybMsL5L3g4PcOGh0NqJW1Z894uE6-NNyNxyEQlso_xOqhhBKoUHi-HeUsw0JteJ0TcW03COx0xcX7LLDuR6aqKHPTZsopxn4E-OI42RbINjRQHLagEAQ8atkPE6xewEVYCQBdDAtNPdhSge7qRstAe9RG4TzvW4nekVqXO2cMX3Dw7GhZbYGgcMG1p-OVkbeKXlFtCdB9LKNgHmjeoMvDPCsKFRkhoQR2cS1myrG5OHtZ2nr6lEAwG7ylvosca9UlKnHYINGwkSLI66msogn-J-PADktJyAUOcUGCUiPo0SPzYfZxyANFYUrdS77ahN1dU7HaL1sNr=w505-h667-no

 

You can see a before in the first post and an after in the hidden comment in the bottom

This post was modified 3 months ago by dm222
ReplyQuote
Posted : 03/07/2019 7:01 pm
dm222
Trusted Member

PS: and there are still people saying mewing doesnt work...

ReplyQuote
Posted : 03/07/2019 8:03 pm
Arkey
Active Member

@helmutstrebl

No need to 'bonesmash', honestly.

You already look 10/10. Keep mewing, it is bringing you to the max of your genetics and you look incredible.

I reckon if you mess with bonesmashing - taking it into your own hands and your own judgement - you will likely make yourself look worse if anything. You are super handsome without huge zygos, i think you'd look worse if they were more prominent.

- Mewing for 6+ months
- IMW: 35mm (no expansion)
- Sleep on the floor without a pillow
- Tape mouth at night
- Continue to emphasise chin-tuck/occipital drive for extended periods
- Chew Mastic Tears for 1 hour every other day

ReplyQuote
Posted : 05/07/2019 1:07 pm
dm222
Trusted Member
Posted by: Odys

There is both a movement of the ramus forward from the ear and a rotation of the mandible that we call upswing but involves a lowering at the back. In this rotation lower incisors that were formerly upright, or appeared so, will become tipped in and require correction.

My lower incisors are tipped out, what will happen? they dont have space to tip in.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 05/07/2019 4:36 pm
dm222
Trusted Member
Posted by: Helmutstrebl

@Ray135

 Thanks man. Heres another before and after. I started bonesmashing as well now so i’m hoping i’ll get even better results. 

I talked with him on discord, I believe it was not surgery, he is just obsessed about mewing and very dedicated.

You can see the changes in the eyes, how the hell would surgery archieve that?!?

If he did implants all over the place why not getting implants on the checkbones too?

What about the nose, so he did surgery to the nose too?

If it was surgeries then he spent like 50.000€ or more on them, because everything changed...

This post was modified 3 months ago 2 times by dm222
ReplyQuote
Posted : 10/07/2019 6:50 pm
Pame
 Pame
Trusted Member
Posted by: dm222
Posted by: Helmutstrebl

@Ray135

 Thanks man. Heres another before and after. I started bonesmashing as well now so i’m hoping i’ll get even better results. 

I talked with him on discord, I believe it was not surgery, he is just obsessed about mewing and very dedicated.

You can see the changes in the eyes, how the hell would surgery archieve that?!?

If he did implants all over the place why not getting implants on the checkbones too?

What about the nose, so he did surgery to the nose too?

If it was surgeries then he spent like 50.000€ or more on them, because everything changed...

@dm222 Link to Discord?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 11/07/2019 7:13 am
Odys
 Odys
Eminent Member
Posted by: dm222
Posted by: Odys

There is both a movement of the ramus forward from the ear and a rotation of the mandible that we call upswing but involves a lowering at the back. In this rotation lower incisors that were formerly upright, or appeared so, will become tipped in and require correction.

My lower incisors are tipped out, what will happen? they dont have space to tip in.

Well if my thinking is right with the upswing they will appear less tipped out. All good.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 11/07/2019 8:46 am
dm222
Trusted Member

@Pame

Link is here

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/orthotropics/comments/cbj5fc/can_someone_please_link_the_lookmax_discord/

This post was modified 3 months ago by dm222
ReplyQuote
Posted : 11/07/2019 10:21 am
justdoit
Active Member

Hello, new poster here but pretty active on Reddit (not the same username).

I believe that this person's transformation is legit. His face has evolved in an incredibly harmonious manner. This would be very expensive using fillers/surgery. Not to mention he has two after pics, and has shared several others here and on his instagram, making it clear that his face progressively morphed through the months. So how many plastic surgeries would he have had, each one costing at least thousands of $$$s?

The most contentious issue I see and that has also been mentioned by you guys is his chin growing forward through mewing.

There are two questions here:

  1. Is such a chin naturally/genetically possible at all?
  2. If this chin growth is indeed in his genetic potential, why did it only grow forward from mewing?

The answer to 1 is yes, even though it is not as common, I see several people with such a chin naturally, especially the ones of South Asian descent with good facial development. Besides, several have been shared on this thread already. If anyone doubts this, I can take some time to compile examples and share them here.

The answer to 2: In his before pic, he doesn't have great lip seal. This is very common in people with improper development. So lip seal is achieved classically using the mentalis muscle (situated at the chin tip). Using the mentalis in such a fashion would be liable for “damaging the form of the chin tip” in Mike Mew’s own words ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lV9zv2_vcg&t=165s ). Now Dr. Mew has a tendency to casually mention things that would be profound revelations to the common man. It is possible that in helmut's before picture, the chin tip hadn’t reached genetic potential because it was damaged through improper mentalis muscle usage. In the after pic, his lip seal has improved greatly. I believe this freed the Mentalis from the improper engagement, allowing his chin tip to 'recover'/decompress/grow to its genetic potential. This exact hypothesis is confirmed in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmMKgXnyNH8&t=184s where Mike Mew talks about people who do the 'mentalis lip seal' not having the chin point and developing it after stopping the mentalis lip seal. This is pretty much precisely what has happened to helmut.

To summarize, for one to grow their chin through Mewing like this, three conditions need to be met:

  1. They need the protruding chin within their genetic potential
  2. They must have improper lip seal before mewing, but still have the tendency to create lip seal using the Mentalis
  3. They need to make enough progress through Mewing that natural lip seal greatly improves

2 is fairly common but not everyone has 1, and I would argue that the 3 barrier is very hard to cross in adulthood and without an appliance. @helmutstrebl is merely the first one we’ve seen who genetically has 1, had 2 pre-mewing and has been able to satisfy 3, through unprecedented effort and dedication.

This post was modified 3 months ago 4 times by justdoit
ReplyQuote
Posted : 11/07/2019 7:13 pm
devicem, Pame and Kyte liked
dm222
Trusted Member
Posted by: skinnyboiii

Ha! I never noticed it before but the 70 year old's chin came forward too!

Check it out, from the video!

so his chin went back, thats not a positive change to me...

ReplyQuote
Posted : 12/07/2019 5:14 pm
dm222
Trusted Member
Posted by: justdoit

Hello, new poster here but pretty active on Reddit (not the same username).

I believe that this person's transformation is legit. His face has evolved in an incredibly harmonious manner. This would be very expensive using fillers/surgery. Not to mention he has two after pics, and has shared several others here and on his instagram, making it clear that his face progressively morphed through the months. So how many plastic surgeries would he have had, each one costing at least thousands of $$$s?

The most contentious issue I see and that has also been mentioned by you guys is his chin growing forward through mewing.

There are two questions here:

  1. Is such a chin naturally/genetically possible at all?
  2. If this chin growth is indeed in his genetic potential, why did it only grow forward from mewing?

The answer to 1 is yes, even though it is not as common, I see several people with such a chin naturally, especially the ones of South Asian descent with good facial development. Besides, several have been shared on this thread already. If anyone doubts this, I can take some time to compile examples and share them here.

The answer to 2: In his before pic, he doesn't have great lip seal. This is very common in people with improper development. So lip seal is achieved classically using the mentalis muscle (situated at the chin tip). Using the mentalis in such a fashion would be liable for “damaging the form of the chin tip” in Mike Mew’s own words ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lV9zv2_vcg&t=165s ). Now Dr. Mew has a tendency to casually mention things that would be profound revelations to the common man. It is possible that in helmut's before picture, the chin tip hadn’t reached genetic potential because it was damaged through improper mentalis muscle usage. In the after pic, his lip seal has improved greatly. I believe this freed the Mentalis from the improper engagement, allowing his chin tip to 'recover'/decompress/grow to its genetic potential. This exact hypothesis is confirmed in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmMKgXnyNH8&t=184s where Mike Mew talks about people who do the 'mentalis lip seal' not having the chin point and developing it after stopping the mentalis lip seal. This is pretty much precisely what has happened to helmut.

To summarize, for one to grow their chin through Mewing like this, three conditions need to be met:

  1. They need the protruding chin within their genetic potential
  2. They must have improper lip seal before mewing, but still have the tendency to create lip seal using the Mentalis
  3. They need to make enough progress through Mewing that natural lip seal greatly improves

2 is fairly common but not everyone has 1, and I would argue that the 3 barrier is very hard to cross in adulthood and without an appliance. @helmutstrebl is merely the first one we’ve seen who genetically has 1, had 2 pre-mewing and has been able to satisfy 3, through unprecedented effort and dedication.

 

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 12/07/2019 7:15 pm
Slinky
Trusted Member
Posted by: dm222
Posted by: Helmutstrebl

@Ray135

 Thanks man. Heres another before and after. I started bonesmashing as well now so i’m hoping i’ll get even better results. 

I talked with him on discord, I believe it was not surgery, he is just obsessed about mewing and very dedicated.

You can see the changes in the eyes, how the hell would surgery archieve that?!?

If he did implants all over the place why not getting implants on the checkbones too?

What about the nose, so he did surgery to the nose too?

If it was surgeries then he spent like 50.000€ or more on them, because everything changed...

Eye change is just squinting. You can see he had hooded eyes before mewing but he apparently has deleted that photo for some reason. The chin and nose change are definitely suspicious, even kids don't achieve that kind of results

ReplyQuote
Posted : 13/07/2019 2:34 am
dm222
Trusted Member
Posted by: Slinky
Posted by: dm222
Posted by: Helmutstrebl

@Ray135

 Thanks man. Heres another before and after. I started bonesmashing as well now so i’m hoping i’ll get even better results. 

I talked with him on discord, I believe it was not surgery, he is just obsessed about mewing and very dedicated.

You can see the changes in the eyes, how the hell would surgery archieve that?!?

If he did implants all over the place why not getting implants on the checkbones too?

What about the nose, so he did surgery to the nose too?

If it was surgeries then he spent like 50.000€ or more on them, because everything changed...

Eye change is just squinting. You can see he had hooded eyes before mewing but he apparently has deleted that photo for some reason. The chin and nose change are definitely suspicious, even kids don't achieve that kind of results

 

 

So if it is surgery, he had two surgeries to the chin?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 13/07/2019 4:31 am
135
 135
Active Member

2 surgeries to chin, 2 surgeries to eye area, 2 nose jobs, 2 surgeries to jaw, 2 surgeries to cervical spine...

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/07/2019 9:42 am
dm222 liked
devicem
New Member

Yes, let's accredit everything to surgery because it's a much easier explanation than to say that he did all this hard work on his own.

@135 Precisely, so how much do you reckon those procedures would have cost? North of $100k? And each and every one of them successful 100% without looking unnatural? Can't wait for those "surgeries" to take their toll once he hits the 2 or 3-year mark. I am sure doubters will come up with more obscene explanations then. Who knows? The mind is capable of many things, so why can't we just accept that his mind was capable of convincing the body that it needed to change, and did so with huge amount of effort.

You want to test this theory out for yourself? Great. Go ahead and devote as much time and effort as he did. He practically gave people the blueprint of what is achievable. If that turns out to be a hoax, so what, you are no better than you are now. BUT on the off chance that it works, you'll have him, Mike Mew, and the whole community to thank when you do get the results. 

So go spend that time learning how to properly engage the posterior third and get throat burns like he did every single day, and try to keep it up 24/7. I've tried, and sure as hell isn't easy. Do that for a year, and who knows...you might just make it. 

This post was modified 3 months ago by devicem
ReplyQuote
Posted : 19/07/2019 6:52 am
justdoit liked
bergamot
New Member

His third update photo made my jaw drop, it's just so dramatically different than the starting photo. It's really amazing.

However it looks like his mandible is too far forward in the last photo. Still, amazing results.

edit:

I am curious if he has ever provided an explanation for what happened to his chin. I have seen a lot of people calling it fake, an implant, etc. And that was my first impression of it, too. It does look very fake and unnatural. HOWEVER, even despite the fake-looking chin, the entire rest of his face has noticeably improved.

This post was modified 3 months ago by bergamot
ReplyQuote
Posted : 19/07/2019 9:30 am
skinnyboiii
Active Member
Posted by: dm222
Posted by: skinnyboiii

Ha! I never noticed it before but the 70 year old's chin came forward too!

Check it out, from the video!

so his chin went back, thats not a positive change to me...

The top picture is the "after".

ReplyQuote
Posted : 20/07/2019 5:00 am
skinnyboiii
Active Member

I'm so grateful to this dude.

@helmutstrebl perhaps you already answered this but did you notice any sensation in your face, bride of your nose, eyebrow ridge, etc. when you hard mewed?

Take care!

ReplyQuote
Posted : 20/07/2019 7:15 am
skinnyboiii
Active Member

@noises, that theory about the straightening of the mandible is something which occurred to me too. I think it's a plausible explanation for the lengthening of the mandible and chin.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 22/07/2019 3:56 am
Slinky
Trusted Member

I started mewing at a younger age than Helmut and still haven't achieved any results. Heck my palate hasnt expanded a single mm. Should i also expect my chin to grow out of nowhere and achieve a straighter nose?  Also him being willing to do something like "bone smashing" makes it quite clear he is obsessed with his appearance and likely had fillers or surgery.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 22/07/2019 1:29 pm
dm222
Trusted Member

he hard mews... not saying to hard mew but different things...

also you could mew all you want, if you dont fix your posture or continue to mouth breathing its all for nothing

This post was modified 3 months ago by dm222
ReplyQuote
Posted : 22/07/2019 1:54 pm
justdoit
Active Member

@Slinky You cannot say that just because you didn't have expansion, it's not possible. Sailor has achieved expansion in his 30s. Go look at his post. I didn't achieve any expansion either (I'm 26). Then I found out I was Mewing wrong. This convinced me that it is indeed very hard to mew correctly if you have a narrow palate and as much as I hate to say it, most people probably don't have results because of wrong technique. Also, I don't think soft Mewing will give you results in adulthood. You need to apply as much force as you possibly can in the right places, which sometimes is so painful you want to stop. And you need to do this for several hours a day.

Also him being willing to do something like "bone smashing" makes it quite clear he is obsessed with his appearance and likely had fillers or surgery.

Him being willing to bone smash doesn't prove anything. We already know he's extremely obsessed with his appearance. I can say that he's so obsessed with his appearance that he hard mewed day and night to maximize his progress. Someone who's smart and obsessed with their long-term appearance is never going to get fillers because they know how badly the fillers degrade a few years down the line.

This post was modified 3 months ago 2 times by justdoit
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Posted : 22/07/2019 2:09 pm
skinnyboiii
Active Member

A thought on this endlessly fascinating case:

though none of us really know why this worked so well, what sets @helmutstrebl's case apart from the others was both the degree of his change and his dedicated (relentless?) chin-tucking.

It occurred to me that the forces on the back of the skull, say due to the SCMs on the mastoid process, might be a contributing factor in this guy's particularly dramatic change. Go ahead and palpate the tension in your SCMs while you're chin tucked, and compare that to the amount of force your tongue can apply. Which do you think is the greater force on the cranium?

Just as the tongue may influence changes to the overall shape of the cranium (including the back), perhaps the SCMs (among others) influence the front via the back.

Anyway, food for thought.

This post was modified 3 months ago by skinnyboiii
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Posted : 25/07/2019 10:29 am
drunkwithcoffee
Trusted Member

@skinnyboiii very good point.  There are 3 cases I consider noteworthy - Helmut's here, Jamo's and Achilles1.  I am giving the first 2 the benefit of the doubt that they didn't have surgery to get to where they are because the way they explain mewing is just too in-depth/nuanced to explain away with "surgery" imo.  I could be wrong in the future but that's my stance right now.

All 3 emphasize chin tuck/head posture as a major driving force.  I think you're on to something about the forces of good head posture potentially being greater than that of the tongue.  

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Posted : 25/07/2019 1:09 pm
Arkey
Active Member

@drunkwithcoffee

There's also a kid on the orthotropics subreddit, labore_et_spera, iirc.

He also has made really quite drastic progress in 6 months, 17 years old though. He again presses on how integral chin tucks are for making progress.

It's made me consider the chin tucks and the really aggressive fixing of head posture as perhaps the main factor in the change, or at least as important as their tongue pressing against the roof of their mouth. Jamo actually explained his mewing technique like this, in that the tongue only pressed against the roof of the mouth because he was chin-tucking so hard, the tongue was almost automatically trying to make room for itself.

- Mewing for 6+ months
- IMW: 35mm (no expansion)
- Sleep on the floor without a pillow
- Tape mouth at night
- Continue to emphasise chin-tuck/occipital drive for extended periods
- Chew Mastic Tears for 1 hour every other day

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Posted : 25/07/2019 1:16 pm
justdoit
Active Member

It's because without forcing a chin tuck, the best you can do is what your (bad) structure allows. When you force a chin tuck, your tongue wants to go above and beyond what your structure allows, so it applies forces to move the maxilla out of the way. I doubt most people hard mewing without chin tucking are applying the correct force vectors.

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Posted : 25/07/2019 11:37 pm
skinnyboiii
Active Member

@justdoit

You say that, but no one really knows. I'm just proposing an alternative idea. I w0uldn't have the slightest idea if there's a test to distinguish the two theories. Perhaps if one chin tucks obsessively without mewing, that would be a partial test.

This post was modified 3 months ago by skinnyboiii
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Posted : 26/07/2019 5:37 am
Pame
 Pame
Trusted Member

@skinnyboiii If you chin tuck hard enough, the back of your tongue should be on your palate immediately. The reason most people have forward head posture in the first places is because the jaws have swung downwards and since the tongue is attached to the mandible, it will partially or completely block your airway unless you jut your head forward. The bodys number one priority is to secure the best airway, so naturally that is what occurs.

 

Getting the head posture is very difficult for someone with recession. When the posture improves it opens up for structural changes, which then allows for further improvements to posture.

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Posted : 26/07/2019 2:48 pm
skinnyboiii
Active Member

Anyone actually following this guy's technique -- chin-tucking and hard mewing at all times while alone?

I'm giving it a shot myself. It's quite tiring. Hoping it gets easier.

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Posted : 28/07/2019 7:15 am
skinnyboiii
Active Member

@helmutstrebl, in your 1-year update you mentioned that your upper teeth moved forward. Did this eventually correct itself?

Take care,

sb.

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Posted : 29/07/2019 3:48 am
justdoit
Active Member
Posted by: @skinnyboiii

Anyone actually following this guy's technique -- chin-tucking and hard mewing at all times while alone?

I'm giving it a shot myself. It's quite tiring. Hoping it gets easier.

I'm doing this too. Walking while chin tucking for hours every day. I'm starting to believe that proper Mewing isn't even possible without chin tucking. As Mike Mew says, the posterior third is under subconscious innovation and I think is entirely guided by neck posture. Initially when I forced chin tuck, the back of the neck musculature was making it happen but slowly I've been able to offload this to the back of the tongue. This position is very painful because the tongue is pressing full-force on the palate and that's the way to go. Have been doing it for a few weeks now, still learning the nuances but as a very early sign of progress, my expander felt less tight when I tried it on yesterday (I'm only using the expander to track/measure). If I achieve 1mm of expansion, I'm going to make a post detailing my approach.

This post was modified 3 months ago by justdoit
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Posted : 29/07/2019 2:18 pm
GoTTi
Trusted Member
Posted by: @justdoit

@Slinky You cannot say that just because you didn't have expansion, it's not possible. Sailor has achieved expansion in his 30s. Go look at his post. I didn't achieve any expansion either (I'm 26). Then I found out I was Mewing wrong. This convinced me that it is indeed very hard to mew correctly if you have a narrow palate and as much as I hate to say it, most people probably don't have results because of wrong technique. Also, I don't think soft Mewing will give you results in adulthood. You need to apply as much force as you possibly can in the right places, which sometimes is so painful you want to stop. And you need to do this for several hours a day.

Also him being willing to do something like "bone smashing" makes it quite clear he is obsessed with his appearance and likely had fillers or surgery.

Him being willing to bone smash doesn't prove anything. We already know he's extremely obsessed with his appearance. I can say that he's so obsessed with his appearance that he hard mewed day and night to maximize his progress. Someone who's smart and obsessed with their long-term appearance is never going to get fillers because they know how badly the fillers degrade a few years down the line.

Well, to be fair, fillers do degrade over time... however, there are several techniques that you can just do to mitigate these significant volume changes. Fo example, you can just go in quarterly to refill once noticeable changes are spotted. You and your practitioner can get the times down to a science and nobody would ever know imo 

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Posted : 29/07/2019 5:20 pm
Freddie
Eminent Member
Posted by: @slinky

I started mewing at a younger age than Helmut and still haven't achieved any results. Heck my palate hasnt expanded a single mm. Should i also expect my chin to grow out of nowhere and achieve a straighter nose?  Also him being willing to do something like "bone smashing" makes it quite clear he is obsessed with his appearance and likely had fillers or surgery.

Kind of weird people claiming he did fillers or that kind of things are the ones who get no result at all. It seems like frustration or something else 

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Posted : 30/07/2019 11:22 pm
135 liked
135
 135
Active Member
Posted by: @freddie
Posted by: @slinky

I started mewing at a younger age than Helmut and still haven't achieved any results. Heck my palate hasnt expanded a single mm. Should i also expect my chin to grow out of nowhere and achieve a straighter nose?  Also him being willing to do something like "bone smashing" makes it quite clear he is obsessed with his appearance and likely had fillers or surgery.

Kind of weird people claiming he did fillers or that kind of things are the ones who get no result at all. It seems like frustration or something else 

If I can't have it, nobody can! It's impossible! 

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Posted : 01/08/2019 3:03 pm
GoTTi
Trusted Member
Posted by: @pame

@skinnyboiii If you chin tuck hard enough, the back of your tongue should be on your palate immediately. The reason most people have forward head posture in the first places is because the jaws have swung downwards and since the tongue is attached to the mandible, it will partially or completely block your airway unless you jut your head forward. The bodys number one priority is to secure the best airway, so naturally that is what occurs.

 

Getting the head posture is very difficult for someone with recession. When the posture improves it opens up for structural changes, which then allows for further improvements to posture.

I don't believe this Is the only reason for forward head posture at all. But it is a scientific fact that the pelvis and jaw have a connection and influence each other. So, if that's the case, why can't the fixation of one's pelvic positioning influence the jaws to grow back outwards like they are supposed to? Also, why can't performing consistent good head posture not eventually trigger the body into remodeling the jaws/airway provided your body is already in a well balanced posture with nothing holding you back? Why does it always stop at the jaws on this forum, I don't get it?

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Posted : 02/08/2019 7:06 pm
GoTTi
Trusted Member
Posted by: @ray135
Posted by: @freddie
Posted by: @slinky

I started mewing at a younger age than Helmut and still haven't achieved any results. Heck my palate hasnt expanded a single mm. Should i also expect my chin to grow out of nowhere and achieve a straighter nose?  Also him being willing to do something like "bone smashing" makes it quite clear he is obsessed with his appearance and likely had fillers or surgery.

Kind of weird people claiming he did fillers or that kind of things are the ones who get no result at all. It seems like frustration or something else 

If I can't have it, nobody can! It's impossible! 

Ha, you guys are funny. It sees to be true though... The most amusing one is the surgery claims. Like if any singl invasive surgery leads to any type of long standing desirable results lol. 

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Posted : 02/08/2019 7:09 pm
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As you undergo correction in the near future, please consider keeping records for your own sake and for others. Pictures of dental impressions, scans, medical reports reports can be very helpful even with all personally identifying information blocked out.

Your input could help many, many people

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