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Helmutstrebl
Active Member

@bison

it took me at least a year to see visible changes. But after the 1st year my face really started changing. Maybe i started mewing harder and engaged more tongue. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/06/2019 8:34 am
Pame
 Pame
Trusted Member

@helmutstrebl When you chin tuck and hold it, do you generally chin tuck hard as you can? Like tuck your chin maximally?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/06/2019 8:38 am
Helmutstrebl
Active Member

@bison

Yes i try to put as far back towards my neck as i can sometimes it blocks my airway and i can’t breathe lol so i ease a little 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/06/2019 8:44 am
krollic
Reputable Member

has the width between your molars increased?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/06/2019 8:47 am
Bison
New Member
Posted by: Helmutstrebl

@bison

it took me at least a year to see visible changes. But after the 1st year my face really started changing. Maybe i started mewing harder and engaged more tongue. 

Well that's some dedication shown there and thanks for laying out the blueprint unless someone's shows proof hard mewing is unsafe 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/06/2019 8:49 am
Helmutstrebl
Active Member

@krollic

 

yes i can only tell that because my tongue sits comfortably otherwise i haven’t taken any pictures of that

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Posted : 09/06/2019 8:52 am
Slinky
Trusted Member

Do you have a good quality before photo? 

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Posted : 09/06/2019 10:01 am
Helmutstrebl
Active Member

@Slinky how about this one. This is from 2017 i was maybe 1-2 months into mewing at the time. 

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Posted : 09/06/2019 10:32 am
Slinky
Trusted Member

I see the dorsal hump disappeared and your face became a lot more masculine. I think the thicker beard in after photo is exaggerating the chin projection. Still very impressive if no fillers involved. To an untrained eye like mine this looks solid mewing progress but i'm not 100% sure

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Posted : 09/06/2019 10:54 am
Helmutstrebl
Active Member

@Slinky

 

Dude i’m from Pakistan. And i’m studying. So, i don’t have any money to get that done. Secondly, there are very few doctors who does this here and they aren’t too good at it either so thats not an option for me either. Believe it or not mewing is all i did. 

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Posted : 09/06/2019 11:59 am
Arkey
Active Member

@helmutstrebl

What would you recommend for someone if they wanted to get into a similar mewing routine to you?

So far I have picked up on 30 mins of chewing a day, sleeping on your back without a pillow to encourage a chin tuck and soft mewing at night. Did you start off literally sitting for 4-5 hours of the day only focusing on the chin tuck and hard mewing?

- Mewing for 6+ months
- IMW: 35mm (no expansion)
- Sleep on the floor without a pillow
- Tape mouth at night
- Continue to emphasise chin-tuck/occipital drive for extended periods
- Chew Mastic Tears for 1 hour every other day

ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/06/2019 1:41 pm
Helmutstrebl
Active Member

@Arkey

i started with two hours of chin tucking everyday. Did it like that for almost a year then started doing it all the time standing/sitting when i was alone so thats like 4-5 hours of chin tucking. 

I didn’t chew gum for the first 6-8 months of mewing but i should have. Right now i’m chewing hard gum 30 minutes everyday sometimes take sundays off. 

I would say its upto you if you wanna start slowly its fine as well but i told you my routine. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/06/2019 1:53 pm
dragonshark and Arkey liked
Progress
Member Moderator
Posted by: Helmutstrebl

@Arkey

i started with two hours of chin tucking everyday. Did it like that for almost a year then started doing it all the time standing/sitting when i was alone so thats like 4-5 hours of chin tucking. 

I didn’t chew gum for the first 6-8 months of mewing but i should have. Right now i’m chewing hard gum 30 minutes everyday sometimes take sundays off. 

I would say its upto you if you wanna start slowly its fine as well but i told you my routine. 

Thanks for checking in. Do you have any thoughts on how much further change you are still going to get?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/06/2019 3:31 pm
Helmutstrebl
Active Member

@Progress

I have no idea man. I’m just gonna keep hard mewing for another 6 months and we’ll see where we get. I will post my results on Jan 2020. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/06/2019 3:35 pm
Autokrator and 135 liked
Sailor87
Eminent Member
Posted by: Abdulrahman

Yea, I made it in reference to on one hand crazy people that blow themselves up among civilians and expect to go to heaven and be rewarded with 72 virgins. On the other hand crazy people that push their tongue so hard and expect their face to look like a model. The joke is that they will get 72 none-virgins.

On a related note, "jihad mewing" is against the teachings of so called "prophet mew".  It goes against his teachings of gentle sub conscious mewing. According to him one must fully tame the tongue before achieving results, but some have taken his gentle peace loving message and corrupted it with savage violent dogma. Those can only be described as heretics and their act as blasphemy. They will be punished with having their maxillas completely and permanently removed to serve as warning to others!

I think that our prophet and savior has found it difficult enough to get his patients to rest their tongue on the palate, let alone jihad mew all day everyday. Its not something for the normies off the world, and not something you could get a kid to do.

I feel that mewing while chin tuggin is nothing special, but jihad mewing while tuggin feels instinctively good. Just when sitting or laying dow, tug that chin in and push forward. What feels like pushing mostly forward and a little up when chin is tugged amounts to push up when in normal position.

I feel your scripture helmut, all hail our new prophet! 

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Posted : 09/06/2019 4:27 pm
devicem, skinnyboiii, Arkey and 1 people liked
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: Sailor87

I think that our prophet and savior has found it difficult enough to get his patients to rest their tongue on the palate, let alone jihad mew all day everyday. Its not something for the normies off the world, and not something you could get a kid to do.

I feel that mewing while chin tuggin is nothing special, but jihad mewing while tuggin feels instinctively good. Just when sitting or laying dow, tug that chin in and push forward. What feels like pushing mostly forward and a little up when chin is tugged amounts to push up when in normal position.

I feel your scripture helmut, all hail our new prophet! 

Blasphemy! He is the fake prophet, he is the anti-mew!!

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Posted : 09/06/2019 11:59 pm
ohwhatthehell
Eminent Member

Man, this is so inspiring. I think the chin tuck really is the missing link to progress.

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Posted : 10/06/2019 1:25 am
skinnyboiii
Active Member

If real, this shows that with dedication, you can achieve results as a full-grown adult that rival the changes seen in children in roughly the same amount of time. It's amazing, really -- two years is typical for childhood orthotropics.

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Posted : 10/06/2019 4:26 am
Helmutstrebl
Active Member

Heres another progress pic from almost the same angle. 

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Posted : 10/06/2019 8:31 am
Slinky
Trusted Member

i trust you man. I see you lost fat too. now the question is: Is hard mewing the answer to making progress as adults? Mike mew said time is more important than force, im really confused. Wish mike mew made a video about this

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Posted : 10/06/2019 8:59 am
Progress
Member Moderator

@helmutstrebl Cheers.

 

Posted by: Slinky

Mike mew said time is more important than force, im really confused. Wish mike mew made a video about this

There is not necessarily anything contradictory to it. Time being more important than force does not mean that force does not matter. It just means that regardless of how hard you push, you are not going to get results instantly. If the question is whether a year of soft pushing or a year of hard pushing is going to yield better results, there is nothing to Mike's statement that would argue against the latter. His main point is that you should mew with an intensity that you are able to maintain it in the long term. He is implying that a moderate push maintained 24/7 is preferrable to mewing really hard for a few minutes and then dropping tongue posture for the next couple of hours. How I would build on this statement is that the stronger push you can maintain 24/7, the more impressive your changes are going to be.

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Posted : 10/06/2019 9:17 am
Helmutstrebl
Active Member

@Slinky

But don’t u think time+force > Just time while mewing?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 10/06/2019 9:19 am
krollic
Reputable Member

all I can say is,my progess has been non-existent whenever I was soft mewing. all my gains have been when I hard mewed for many weeks/months. I even relapsed a when softmewing for a few months once.

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Posted : 10/06/2019 9:32 am
Helmutstrebl
Active Member

@krollic

i wonder why mike mew don’t tell his adult followers to hard mew or at least mew with some force because i can’t see how just the tongue lightly touching the roof gonna change anything on a grown adult. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 10/06/2019 9:43 am
krollic
Reputable Member

because I don't think there's much research on it and he naturally he wouldn't want to be held accountable in case someone hurts themselves for whatever reason

ReplyQuote
Posted : 10/06/2019 9:51 am
Autokrator, devicem, Odys and 1 people liked
Pame
 Pame
Trusted Member

There really needs to be more studies done on facial bone changes in adults. We know chewing will remodel the jaws in adult age, and high bite force has been linked to low gonial angles and generally wide, attractive faces with good bone structure. We also know oral posture and correct swallowing, in addition good general body posture are all essential. However we have no idea what the weighting of these are. Perhaps strong masseters and general body posture are far more important than the tongue posture part. We simply don't know.

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Posted : 10/06/2019 12:39 pm
ohwhatthehell
Eminent Member

It's exactly what @krollic said. He would, based on an existing body of 0 medical research, have to suggest to his clients to try something experimental with totally unknown consequences. This would not only discredit him, but open him up to all kinds of lawsuits. Literally all of the results both on this forum and elsewhere that are impressive are of people hard mewing. There's not really anything to debate. I haven't seen a single individual that wasn't hard mewing post meaningful progress. We have to lead this charge. We will be the testing sample for hard mewing that later is corroborated by research. I'm convinced that if anything works, it's hard mewing that does. That's how I'm going to be investing my time.

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Posted : 10/06/2019 4:23 pm
drunkwithcoffee
Trusted Member

@ohwhatthehell well said.  Everyone is looking for evidence but the reality is that "hard mewing" has not been studied - at all.  It's merely a hypothesis right now, and we (or those of us who are doing it anyway) are the experiment.  Proceed with that in mind.

  

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Posted : 10/06/2019 7:21 pm
drunkwithcoffee
Trusted Member

Further thoughts on @Helmutstrebl's case.  

Today in the mirror I noticed just how drastically a beard can influence your appearance.  A beard gives your chin the impression that it's protruding by probably at least 20% more than it actually is.  I'm sure if he shaved his beard his transformation would look much more natural.

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Posted : 10/06/2019 9:10 pm
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: Progress

There is not necessarily anything contradictory to it. Time being more important than force does not mean that force does not matter. It just means that regardless of how hard you push, you are not going to get results instantly. If the question is whether a year of soft pushing or a year of hard pushing is going to yield better results, there is nothing to Mike's statement that would argue against the latter. His main point is that you should mew with an intensity that you are able to maintain it in the long term. He is implying that a moderate push maintained 24/7 is preferrable to mewing really hard for a few minutes and then dropping tongue posture for the next couple of hours. How I would build on this statement is that the stronger push you can maintain 24/7, the more impressive your changes are going to be.

He also said force has to be gentle and sub conscious, very clearly so many times, which contradicts what you are saying.

Posted by: krollic

because I don't think there's much research on it and he naturally he wouldn't want to be held accountable in case someone hurts themselves for whatever reason

Because there is research to suggest otherwise, bone placed under constant pressure by soft tissue starts gradually wasting away.  I forgot the name of this condition but Dr. John Mew talks about it in his book chapter 4.

Posted by: krollic

all I can say is,my progess has been non-existent whenever I was soft mewing. all my gains have been when I hard mewed for many weeks/months. I even relapsed a when softmewing for a few months once.

And that is one of the problems of "hard mewing", it requires constant effort which is not natural. Contrast that with having proper treatment to expand your arches and in the process correcting your tongue and body function and posture. You would have results and be able to maintain them without any additional effort. And maybe overtime your entire maxilla will start remodeling as it seems we are seeing in some cases.  

Posted by: ohwhatthehell

It's exactly what @krollic said. He would, based on an existing body of 0 medical research, have to suggest to his clients to try something experimental with totally unknown consequences. This would not only discredit him, but open him up to all kinds of lawsuits.

He has already done that with "mewing" and his "facial upswing". Both concepts are based on theory. He had and still dose not, have any evidence for them.

 

Posted by: ohwhatthehell

Literally all of the results both on this forum and elsewhere that are impressive are of people hard mewing. There's not really anything to debate. I haven't seen a single individual that wasn't hard mewing post meaningful progress.

Exactly, all the results you consider impressive provide absolutely no evidence to analyze or debate. Instead they look more like cosmetic procedures. 

Posted by: ohwhatthehell

We have to lead this charge. We will be the testing sample for hard mewing that later is corroborated by research. I'm convinced that if anything works, it's hard mewing that does. That's how I'm going to be investing my time.

Find an orthodontist that is willing to follow your case so you can have proper records.

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Posted : 11/06/2019 12:18 am
skinnyboiii
Active Member

@abdulrahman you keep bringing up cosmetic procedures wrt this @helmutstrebl. You must think that he had cosmetic surgery on his whole skull, since every part of his head changed. In all the dramatic pictures you have posted, the faces are changed in discrete ways which a trained eye can see. But with our friend @helmutstrebl this is not the case, and if he is telling the truth (which as of right now I have no reason to doubt) then jihad mewing works.

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Posted : 11/06/2019 1:51 am
ohwhatthehell
Eminent Member

@abdulrahman I'm not going to find an orthodontist to track anything. I don't have time for that. I'm already seeing awesome results that are similar to a lot of the other people that you probably cast doubt on. I find it very unlikely that hard mewing causes bone to waste away. Bones under stress grow. That's been known for decades now. It's also not "constant pressure". Nobody is able to hard mew for more than a few hours, even if they say "4-5 hours". They aren't actually able to exert pressure for all of that time.

Ultimately, you will do and believe what you want, but I'm getting great results and so are many others.

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Posted : 11/06/2019 1:52 am
Pame liked
krollic
Reputable Member

@ohwhatthehell

It's also not "constant pressure". Nobody is able to hard mew for more than a few hours, even if they say "4-5 hours". They aren't actually able to exert pressure for all of that time.

you may be surprised. i'm getting pretty damn close to being able to hard-mew all waking hours (except when i'm very distracted or engaged with something. after several months of hard mewing your tongues endurance can be immense 

I hard mew during the day and then I passive/natural mew while I'm asleep (though i'm pretty damn sure my passive mewing is a lot stronger than most peoples as a result of hard mewing so much). I think of the former as for expansion and the latter for retaining

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Posted : 11/06/2019 4:35 am
Helmutstrebl
Active Member

@krollic

exactly the same with me. I hard mew all the time while awake except for eating and talking pr i’m distracted by something. And by all that hard mewing I automatically soft mew in my sleep.

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Posted : 11/06/2019 6:27 am
Helmutstrebl
Active Member

Another before an after from the front. You just can’t say hard mewing doesn’t work @Abdulrahman

ReplyQuote
Posted : 11/06/2019 6:33 am
diorchild liked
Sailor87
Eminent Member

Looks like two different people. One looks mature and handsome the other looks much more boyish. 

So how have people around you reacted? It must be hard to notice if you see a person often, but still there must come a moment of wonder when change is so drastic. 

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Posted : 11/06/2019 7:24 am
Progress
Member Moderator

@abdulrahman

He also said force has to be gentle and sub conscious, very clearly so many times, which contradicts what you are saying.

I know. The context was the specific statement of "time > force". Regarding the larger context of Mew's philosophy and the sentiment you brought up, Mew is clearly either wrong or protecting his arrse, as others were already saying.

You would have results and be able to maintain them without any additional effort. 

This may be wishful thinking. Imagine an athlete saying that once you become fit, you should be able to maintain your fit body with no additional effort. NOTHING in life works like that. It's naive to assume that optimal anatomic function is not going to take effort to maintain. The body will regress as much as you allow it to.

You may not fully appreciate how intensely physical the lifestyle of the pre-agricultural man was. The hunter-gatherer conditions in which the modern man evolved meant strenous daily activity. It was under these conditions that proper growth was routinely achieved and maintained. In contrast to this, the amount of effortlessness you are proposing is comparable to utter laziness. 

He had and still dose not, have any evidence for them.

Mike has lots of evidence. What he does not have is proof. 

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Posted : 11/06/2019 7:45 am
Francybe92
Active Member

@Helmutstrebl The problem here is not that your bones has remodeled trough hard mewing, you were literally able to grow new bones and coincidentally in the more aesthetic and pleasing way. Anyway undeniable results, but to me it's too hard to believe that such result are possible with just mewing. Im not saying that you are lying i'm just saying that i struggle to believe you.

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Posted : 11/06/2019 7:52 am
Arkey
Active Member
Posted by: Helmutstrebl

Another before an after from the front. You just can’t say hard mewing doesn’t work @Abdulrahman

This comparison reminds me of the progress photo of patient zero of Plato's facepulling stuff.

You can see from the front how his face has widened, and his featured are deeper set in his face. This is a result of just pulling the maxilla forwards with external means.

@helmutstrebl has the same sort of face change when you look from the front, apart from that the rotation of his jaw is far more impressive.

I think the reason that it's hard to believe that this is real is because it's so damn impressive. He's gone from a good looking fella to a bloody supermodel, and everyone on this forum has forced themselves to be super modest about the results they expect, that they're only in it to expand their airways. Here's a good indication that you will look better after hard-mewing.

Despite it being incredibly impressive, all the clues I can gather suggest that this is real. I mean, his technique is almost exactly the same as Jamo's, the exalted member of the forums that people always point to as evidence for hard mewing.

If it's all some elaborate prank as some people see it, well I'm okay with being punked. Hahaha

- Mewing for 6+ months
- IMW: 35mm (no expansion)
- Sleep on the floor without a pillow
- Tape mouth at night
- Continue to emphasise chin-tuck/occipital drive for extended periods
- Chew Mastic Tears for 1 hour every other day

ReplyQuote
Posted : 11/06/2019 10:46 am
Phoenix1246, Autokrator, diorchild and 1 people liked
Helmutstrebl
Active Member

@sailor87

my family members haven’t noticed and they never said anything on my looks. But girls treat me way differently. Lookism is legit theres no denying it. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 11/06/2019 11:00 am
mateogon liked
Slinky
Trusted Member

Mike never advocated hard mewing but i'll try it and see how it goes. also @helmutstrebl how wide is your palate now? your arches surely would've expanded a few mm

ReplyQuote
Posted : 11/06/2019 11:28 am
Mangas77
Eminent Member

@Hermultstrebl, how strong do you hard mew ? Do you mew as hard as possible or do you firmly apply your tongue, with reasonable strength, against your palate ? Mewing as hard as possible seems too exhausting (and painful) to be done all day long, or even 4 or 5 hours.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 11/06/2019 11:49 am
krollic
Reputable Member

you're not meant to or are going to be able to hard mew all day long initially. that takes time before you are strong enough to do so. just work up to it and it becomes second nature. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 11/06/2019 11:55 am
Helmutstrebl
Active Member

@Slinky Yes bro my palate has expanded but i’m not sure how much as i don’t have before pics to compare. 

@Mangas77 i guess thats why i got good results. I hard mew all the time when i’m awake except eating or talking but the intensity differs, some hours i mew hard af with 100% of my tongue power and some hours i hard mew at like 70-80% but i always hard mew. 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 11/06/2019 12:00 pm
Mangas77
Eminent Member

Okay ! Btw, what about your progress @Krollic as a "hardmewer" ? Has your face changed significantly as well ?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 11/06/2019 12:23 pm
TGW
 TGW
TGW Admin Admin
Posted by: Pame

There really needs to be more studies done on facial bone changes in adults. We know chewing will remodel the jaws in adult age, and high bite force has been linked to low gonial angles and generally wide, attractive faces with good bone structure. We also know oral posture and correct swallowing, in addition good general body posture are all essential. However we have no idea what the weighting of these are. Perhaps strong masseters and general body posture are far more important than the tongue posture part. We simply don't know.

There is a correlation vs causation question there. The better development may cause the higher bite force, since the jaws and muscles can operate with their full strength and efficiency in a properly developed skull

ReplyQuote
Posted : 11/06/2019 2:37 pm
Pame
 Pame
Trusted Member

@admin Good point, but now that we know chewing causes remodeling of the mandible at any age, it would make sense that chewing would be at least partly responsible for this good facial development? I think there is a consensus that chewing causes lower gonial angles / inclination of the mandibular plane (seen in e.g bruxism patients) which would imply forward growth of both jaws. As far as I know all the evidence we have of why craniofacial dystrophy is so widespread is entirely related to a decrease in masticatory effort. I personally think chewing is very overlooked here because its so simple, but I believe strong, well developed masticatory muscles will guide the development of the entire skull in the right direction. The fact that most attractive people have very good muscle tone supports this idea.

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 11/06/2019 3:52 pm
ohwhatthehell
Eminent Member

@helmutsrebl when you "chin tuck", do you just push lean your head forward so that your chin recedes into your throat or do you pull the top of your head backwards until your chin recedes? More looking down or pulling back?

ReplyQuote
Posted : 11/06/2019 8:59 pm
skinnyboiii
Active Member

I believe that the chin tuck is more about pulling the crown of your head up than about anything else. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 12/06/2019 3:25 am
Arkey
Active Member

@ohwhatthehell

I would take the advice generally given, and start with pulling the back of your head upwards, this will pull your chin in anyways. 

OP has then said that he would sometimes push his chin back further with his fingers to engage an even more extreme chin tuck.

 

- Mewing for 6+ months
- IMW: 35mm (no expansion)
- Sleep on the floor without a pillow
- Tape mouth at night
- Continue to emphasise chin-tuck/occipital drive for extended periods
- Chew Mastic Tears for 1 hour every other day

ReplyQuote
Posted : 12/06/2019 5:50 am
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member

Guys you might want to take a look at this before starting "jihad mewing". 

Above is a picture I extracted from his video and matched against his progress pictures. As you see below his face in the video (left) does not look as forward grown as in "after" progress picture (right).

click to enlarge

Now I realize that his face is a little turned away from the camera in the video compared to the "after" progress picture and that can make a face shallower or less forward grown. So I compared it to the "before" progress picture, which also has the face turned away a little from the camera.

click on it to view the gif animation

The two match very closely. Obviously his hair is longer giving him more volume at the back of the head and of course his neck, chin, and nose look different.

I think this plus the mismatch between the video and "after" progress picture he provided explains the final piece of the puzzle. The chin, lower jaw, and nose are probably a product of fillers. The forward grown face is most likely a result of photoshoping.

PS. I will respond to individual messages soon.

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Posted : 12/06/2019 2:12 pm
Progress
Member Moderator

@abdulrahman Are you aware that you are comparing different sides of his face to each other? For someone who has time and time again emphasized the importance of taking photos with identical settings, and readily called pictures that don't fulfill these criteria worthless, your willingness to analyze someone's face based on photos that have not only been taken from different angles and with different lighting, but also from the opposite sides of the face, seems absurd.

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Posted : 12/06/2019 2:48 pm
Apollo
Reputable Member
Posted by: Abdulrahman

Guys you might want to take a look at this before starting "jihad mewing". 

@abdulrahman I get that you're trying to check expectations and keep everyone grounded in an evidence-based approach, but you've made your point, and I think your relentless analysis and sarcasm is verging on harassment. We should accept the ambiguity that, while we don't have hard evidence "proving" these results, we certainly can't use that same evidence to "disprove" them. If we are going to harvest pictures of someone that they posted on the internet (ostensibly to help other people) then we should go out of our way to be respectful while scrutinizing them. Maybe everyone is taking the jokes in good fun, but I'm uncomfortable with your "jihad mewing" shtick especially considering his Pakistani heritage. Maybe you yourself are part of a group that gets targeted with "terrorist" mockery and are reappropriating pejoratives, but its a slippery slope and this isn't the place for it. Even if @helmutstrebl is deceiving everyone as you claim, every post from him that I've read has been helpful, respectful, and informative. He's not promoting a youtube channel or trying to get his 15 minutes of fame like some personalities. I think I've also read some comments where he tells people that he hasn't noticed much change in one feature or another. So I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. Are you worried that people will hurt themselves by pushing too hard with their tongue? I think this risk is mostly self-limiting. My take on "hard mewing" has always been that active tongue pressure works by building up the resting muscle tone so that passive tongue pressure gradually increases over time. So I see some utility in strengthening exercises like "tongue pushups." His routine is more extreme than mine, but I haven't achieved these kind of results so I can't speak with authority if it is a good or bad approach.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 12/06/2019 3:15 pm
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: Progress

@abdulrahman Are you aware that you are comparing different sides of his face to each other? For someone who has time and time again emphasized the importance of taking photos with identical settings, and readily called pictures that don't fulfill these criteria worthless, your willingness to analyze someone's face based on photos that have not only been taken from different angles and with different lighting, but also from the opposite sides of the face, seems absurd.

Are you aware how much difference (forward growth) he shows between his "before" and "after" pictures?  Do you see how much his face is forward in the giff you personally posted? Do you think it's even possible to have in the same face one side look that different (less forward grown) to the other side? Have you considered how absurd that would be, I did and that is why I never bothered mentioning it, but since you asked I will respond. The forward growth difference presented in his before and after pictures is so big that it makes no difference what side you look at. Right or left he would would look allot more forward than he does in his video.

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Posted : 12/06/2019 3:22 pm
drunkwithcoffee
Trusted Member

@abdulrahman I don't think you can determine exactly what angle his head is in each of these photos, which leaves too much room for error in your analysis.  

What's more constructive - what evidence would he need to provide to convince you?

I'm glad there are both skeptics and believers on this forum.  I think we can learn a lot from both sides.  

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Posted : 12/06/2019 3:30 pm
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: Apollo

@abdulrahman I get that you're trying to check expectations and keep everyone grounded in an evidence-based approach, but you've made your point, and I think your relentless analysis and sarcasm is verging on harassment. We should accept the ambiguity that, while we don't have hard evidence "proving" these results, we certainly can't use that same evidence to "disprove" them. If we are going to harvest pictures of someone that they posted on the internet (ostensibly to help other people) then we should go out of our way to be respectful while scrutinizing them. Maybe everyone is taking the jokes in good fun, but I'm uncomfortable with your "jihad mewing" shtick especially considering his Pakistani heritage. Maybe you yourself are part of a group that gets targeted with "terrorist" mockery and are reappropriating pejoratives, but its a slippery slope and this isn't the place for it. Even if @helmutstrebl is deceiving everyone as you claim, every post from him that I've read has been helpful, respectful, and informative. He's not promoting a youtube channel or trying to get his 15 minutes of fame like some personalities. I think I've also read some comments where he tells people that he hasn't noticed much change in one feature or another. So I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. Are you worried that people will hurt themselves by pushing too hard with their tongue? I think this risk is mostly self-limiting. My take on "hard mewing" has always been that active tongue pressure works by building up the resting muscle tone so that passive tongue pressure gradually increases over time. So I see some utility in strengthening exercises like "tongue pushups." His routine is more extreme than mine, but I haven't achieved these kind of results so I can't speak with authority if it is a good or bad approach.

Sure I can, stop the "jihad mewing" part, but I see no reason to give him the benefit of the doubt. On the other hand if you noticed I did not respond to his direct messages to avoid confrontation. I let him share his comments without direct interference from me.

By the way the whole joke started having nothing to do with his heritage, it had more to do with people describing his dedication as "religious". I thought it was funny that people would put that kind of effort just in the plight of getting girls, hence the none-virgins part of the joke. 

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Posted : 12/06/2019 3:34 pm
Progress
Member Moderator
Posted by: Abdulrahman
Posted by: Progress

@abdulrahman Are you aware that you are comparing different sides of his face to each other? For someone who has time and time again emphasized the importance of taking photos with identical settings, and readily called pictures that don't fulfill these criteria worthless, your willingness to analyze someone's face based on photos that have not only been taken from different angles and with different lighting, but also from the opposite sides of the face, seems absurd.

Are you aware how much difference (forward growth) he shows between his "before" and "after" pictures?

Yes. You are committing the very same mistake you have accused me of committing in the past, only in this case the situation is reversed: instead of me using inaccurate pictures to demonstrate change, you are using inaccurate pictures to disprove change. Is this unintentional or intentional bias?

Do you think it's even possible to have in the same face one side look that different (less forward grown) to the other side?

Very much so. Give it a try. 

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Posted : 12/06/2019 3:41 pm
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: drunkwithcoffee

@abdulrahman I don't think you can determine exactly what angle his head is in each of these photos, which leaves too much room for error in your analysis.  

What's more constructive - what evidence would he need to provide to convince you?

I'm glad there are both skeptics and believers on this forum.  I think we can learn a lot from both sides.  

I answered he same question in an earlier post.

The angles are obvious especially from his eye brows. The point I made in response to progress is that when you present that much expansion on one side of your face there is no way the other side of the face isn't going to show close to that level of expansion. This guy is presenting expansion upwards of 2cm on his left side. There is no way his right side isn't going to show no expansion as it does in his video. That's one major mismatch between the two sides of his face and the front pictures do not show any mismatch like that. 

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Posted : 12/06/2019 3:43 pm
Abdulrahman
Reputable Member
Posted by: Progress

Yes. You are committing the very same mistake you have accused me of committing in the past, only in this case the situation is reversed: instead of me using inaccurate pictures to demonstrate change, you are using inaccurate pictures to disprove change. Is this unintentional or intentional bias?

No, I am not because I made those comments in response to tracking progress of small mewing changes. A couple mm at most. I pointed out that it's very easy to miss or confuse those small differences with different angles and lighting. I also argued that you almost always see the difference in surgery cases even when the angles are not consistent, why? Because they are real and more dramatic than just a couple mm. You can find all of this in the topic that was about if anyone saw changes, it was a long topic.

Very much so. Give it a try. 

I am not sure what you mean by give it a try, but I pointed out that that would not be possible in my response to drukenwithcoffee. Its the comment right before this one.

my story: http://www.aljabri.com/blog/my-story/

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Posted : 12/06/2019 3:49 pm
Progress
Member Moderator
Posted by: Abdulrahman
Posted by: drunkwithcoffee

@abdulrahman I don't think you can determine exactly what angle his head is in each of these photos, which leaves too much room for error in your analysis.  

What's more constructive - what evidence would he need to provide to convince you?

I'm glad there are both skeptics and believers on this forum.  I think we can learn a lot from both sides.  

I answered he same question in an earlier post.

The angles are obvious especially from his eye brows. The point I made in response to progress is that when you present that much expansion on one side of your face there is no way the other side of the face isn't going to show close to that level of expansion. This guy is presenting expansion upwards of 2cm on his left side. There is no way his right side isn't going to show no expansion as it does in his video. That's one major mismatch between the two sides of his face and the front pictures do not show any mismatch like that. 

Oh, now I get what you are hanging on to. I think the pics in the original GIF I posted are not accurately superimposed. They are presenting the changes as being much greater than they really are.

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Posted : 12/06/2019 3:49 pm
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