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Symbiant
Active Member

Hi,

I have always been told I have a very long mid face and through reading this website it appears that there may be something wrong with the underlying bone structure, this may also explain why I have dark circles under my eyes.

I also seem to have an asymmetrical jawline?

I would appreciate any evaluation you can give me and advise me on potential solutions, I can afford surgery if required.

Many thanks

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Posted : 14/12/2018 8:41 am
Symbiant
Active Member

Side profile

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Posted : 14/12/2018 8:43 am

That asymmetrical jawline might be because of an imbalance in your palate space, as your palate expands with mewing you'll start looking more symmetrical

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Posted : 16/12/2018 12:00 am
Worric
New Member

Yes, your face has developed wrong. Properly developed faces are short, and have a snout, called a forward maxilla. You can see this type of face in models, and some athletes. The bottom of your face has slipped, or melted downwards towards your neck, and it appears you are tilting your head upwards to compensate. Contrary to what some people say, it is completely fixable, with a change in diet, body awareness, posture work, and 24 hour dedication (including sleeping).

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Posted : 16/12/2018 2:26 am
Symbiant
Active Member

Thanks for the replies, in terms of fixes, you mention a few examples of what could work, I wondered if you could elaborate on each of these, I am happy to research on my own if you could point me in the right direction of the kind of things I should be doing.

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Posted : 17/12/2018 5:24 am
LastQuestion
Active Member

It's not all posture, not even mostly; growth and health is about systems biology - that is why most of us need a doctor to really makes sense of what's going on. Unfortunately, due to how nascent this science of facial growth and airway is, it can be quite difficult to find such a doctor. For example, many here practically worship Dr. Mew, but I find Dr. Mew has some knowledge gaps which make him someone I, personally, would not wish to undergo therapy with, but nevertheless support his core concepts and the work he does in making it known environment is the main mediator of facial growth and the orthodontic profession have been doing a poor job of understanding craniofacial growth and development and it's impact on health.

 

As to your pictures, it appears you have a midfacial deficiency. Bags under the eyes correlate strongly to midfacial deficiency. Your maxilla appears narrow. Your mandible is retrusive. You have a forward head posture. Between the anatomy and head position, it's quite possible your airway is impaired.

An underdeveloped maxilla will reduce nasal volume and can impair the airway spaces in the throat/soft palate area. flow limitation in the nasal passages will lead to increased respiratory effort and alter pressure within the pharyngeal airway - this can increase the collapsibility of the airway while also increaseing sympathetic tone. A mandible which is retrusive also negatively influences airway volume. Both of those factors reduce the space for the tongue. Between the flow limitation in the nasal passages and the tongue having less than optimal space, there's quite a lot of chance breathing difficulties will impact sleep and daytime posture.

 

Most craniofacial growth occurs ages 0-12, therefore, it's possible your anatomy has impaired your sleep which then impacted your growth. The idea that it is mostly nutrition, or posture, or tongue position are simplifications of a very complex problem that has baffled medical professionals for decades. The influence of craniofacial growth on health is complex and snowballs the longer it goes unaddressed - hence it's a systems biology problem and best assessed by a highly specialized team of dentists and doctors.

 

So the Autonomic nervous system will do what it must to maintain a patent airway. How this presents in a person seems to vary. One adaptation is a forward head posture. Others include but are not limited to bruxism, jaw clenching, turning the head/body laterally, and posturing the mandible forward or laterally. These breathing difficulties lead to arousal and negatively impact sleep. The breathing difficulty acts as a chronic stressor. The body/brain learns "I need to engage in these compensatory behaviors to survive" therefore, the bruxism/head posture becomes a habit and correlates to worsening during times of stress, because the body isn't able to intelligently distinguish between choking on your tongue and being choked by an python, and ends up 'knowing' "we need to breath, and moving the jaw/head/neck achieves breathing". Sometimes, the learned adaptation is enough to stabilize sleep to where a sleep study will show no apnea, maybe not even UARS, but in order to resolve the complications from the maladaptations keeping the airway patent (headaches, neck pain, digestion issues...it's a long list of things that can go wrong) one needs to fix the anatomy that the nervous system is compensating for.

 

Now, some will tell you 'mewing will fix you' I would say, show me the data. Plainly speaking, mewing has not been shown to achieve this in children or adults. A combination of oral appliances and myofunctional therapy shows promise in children. There is little to no evidence I would consider compelling in adults, with the exception that myofunctional therapy (addressing oral posture) can help improve the muscle tone and neurology governing the muscles of the airway and thus positively influence airway function and sleep - but at no point does this mean the jaw structure redevelops as many on this forum would claim. The current anecdotes on the internet are far from offering hope that mewing might work. If you want results, you want to get fixed, then don't trust your health to mewing, go find a dentist who can offer non-surgical or surgical expansion and repositioning of the maxilla with an explicit intent of treatment to improve the function of your airway.

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Posted : 23/12/2018 6:39 pm
Kyte liked
Symbiant
Active Member

Thank you for the response.

I visited a cosmetic surgeon today who suggested either orthographic surgery which would involve first wearing braces for 2 years or (her preferred option) would to be to apply Mandibular Angle Implants to give more balance to my face.

I am more inclined to try the health route as you mention, I do feel I have sleep issues, I know I snore and I often find myself tired throughout the day even after receiving 8-9 hours sleep.

I will try and book a GP appointment later in the week to discuss a sleep test.

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Posted : 26/03/2019 12:10 pm
darby_jones
Active Member

There are instances of people developing autoimmunity from breast implants, and lots of surgeries that leave people looking worse than when they started.

You might have a mid-facial deficiency, but I find you attractive as you are. A few years of Mewing and gum chewing for stronger masseters should have you looking even better than when you started with no cost or risk.

Perfect is the enemy of the good.

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Posted : 26/03/2019 12:27 pm
snaaaaakes
Active Member

Keep doing your homework. Keep asking questions. Yes, of course Mewing will fix your vertical excess and your asymmetry if you keep at it. What are you going to do next?

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Posted : 27/03/2019 4:26 am
GreekGodBrody
Trusted Member
Posted by: LastQuestion

Most craniofacial growth occurs ages 0-12, therefore, it's possible your anatomy has impaired your sleep which then impacted your growth. 

If by growth you mean his maxilary growth, sure. If by height..don't think so. You can easily tell that the guy is pretty tall, and has a big skull (he is not a 'skullcel').

Take me. I have a small skull, narrow wrists & forearms,  and a narrow frame (bideltoid width), at 6 ft. I'm basically an adult with the body of a teenager (aka a 'framecel' in Lookism terms. My father was much broader vs me. He looked like a man, thick wrists and forearms, broader shoulders, higher total bone mass, properly grown skull.

Why did I not developed enough? 😭 Why me?

What causes frameceldom?

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Posted : 27/03/2019 10:48 am
mr.mewing
Trusted Member
Posted by: GreekGodBrody
Posted by: LastQuestion

Most craniofacial growth occurs ages 0-12, therefore, it's possible your anatomy has impaired your sleep which then impacted your growth. 

If by growth you mean his maxilary growth, sure. If by height..don't think so. You can easily tell that the guy is pretty tall, and has a big skull (he is not a 'skullcel').

Take me. I have a small skull, narrow wrists & forearms,  and a narrow frame (bideltoid width), at 6 ft. I'm basically an adult with the body of a teenager (aka a 'framecel' in Lookism terms. My father was much broader vs me. He looked like a man, thick wrists and forearms, broader shoulders, higher total bone mass, properly grown skull.

Why did I not developed enough? 😭 Why me?

What causes frameceldom?

it started with food in early states of live according to Weston a Price he checked people who lived in isolated places and eated lots of healthy fats an all natural products out of wild live they got broad and thick bones good facial developmend then he went to do next generation who lived in a modern society and eated a modern diet with lots of sugar the difference where that they where very skinny with bad facial develmend and crooked teeth and they where a lot of cases where people got cancer where in the isolated society no cancer cases where

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Posted : 28/03/2019 3:23 am
Symbiant
Active Member

Thanks for the input guys.

I spoke to another maxillofacial surgeon in London yesterday and this is what they had to say:

On examination you do have a slightly set back maxilla which means that your cheek bones are fairly
flat and there is a little bit of what is termed scleral show, suggesting there is not quite enough
support for the soft tissues around the lower part of your cheeks and lower eyelids. With your lower
jaw, the angle of your mandible is fairly steep and this could be improved by mandibular implants.

The ideal surgery would probably involve orthognathic surgery and fixed braces for 2-3 years and
then implants on to the angles of your mandible. Orally you still have an anterior open bite and your top
jaw is slightly too narrow, resulting in bilateral cross bite. You have impacted wisdom teeth but I do not think these are causing you any problems at present. The most likely procedure that would give
you the best results, other than orthognathic surgery, would be bilateral mandibular implants +/-
maxillary implants.

I am going to see if they can refer me to a dentist regarding the braces, I'd rather fix any underlying issues then just mask them with implants, no matter the short term pain/discomfort.

I am not sure if mewing can help with any what they have highlighted, especially the comment about the set back maxilla, would an MSE or FAGGA device help in these respects?

 

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Posted : 16/04/2019 10:52 am
Symbiant
Active Member
Posted by: snaaaaakes

Keep doing your homework. Keep asking questions. Yes, of course Mewing will fix your vertical excess and your asymmetry if you keep at it. What are you going to do next?

The thing is I am already 33 so I am not sure how much mewing can do for me at this age, I have yet to see a real success story of mewing at 30+ unless I have missed it

ReplyQuote
Posted : 16/04/2019 10:59 am
GreekGodBrody
Trusted Member
Posted by: Symbiant
Posted by: snaaaaakes

Keep doing your homework. Keep asking questions. Yes, of course Mewing will fix your vertical excess and your asymmetry if you keep at it. What are you going to do next?

The thing is I am already 33 so I am not sure how much mewing can do for me at this age, I have yet to see a real success story of mewing at 30+ unless I have missed it

If I were at your age, I'd go all out on Hard Mewing (striving to apply uniform pressure, in order to avoid creating inbalances) + a lot of chin tucks. So basically, make MEWING + tongue and neck posture a daily job.

 

ReplyQuote
Posted : 17/04/2019 2:43 am
Achilles1
Trusted Member
Posted by: GreekGodBrody
Posted by: LastQuestion

Most craniofacial growth occurs ages 0-12, therefore, it's possible your anatomy has impaired your sleep which then impacted your growth. 

If by growth you mean his maxilary growth, sure. If by height..don't think so. You can easily tell that the guy is pretty tall, and has a big skull (he is not a 'skullcel').

Take me. I have a small skull, narrow wrists & forearms,  and a narrow frame (bideltoid width), at 6 ft. I'm basically an adult with the body of a teenager (aka a 'framecel' in Lookism terms. My father was much broader vs me. He looked like a man, thick wrists and forearms, broader shoulders, higher total bone mass, properly grown skull.

Why did I not developed enough? 😭 Why me?

What causes frameceldom?

Do not underestimate Wolff's law. You want to become broad? Just like mewing, it is possible to thicken the bones over long periods through heavy lifting as well as causing microfractures to the bone itself. It will be painful, but possible over the course of several years. Prepare yourself lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ul5iGz7F1A&t=897s

 

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Posted : 20/04/2019 12:34 am
AlphaMinus
Estimable Member

Adopt correct tongue posture, sure. Mewing  (or "hard mewing") is not going to make any changes in the size or position of your adult maxilla. I'd be tempted to go down the surgery route if I had the funds.

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Posted : 23/04/2019 6:23 pm
Jawanomics
Eminent Member

Grow your beard to 5-10mm or surgery.

ReplyQuote
Posted : 08/05/2019 10:02 am
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